fsx-ms ATC addons

[MaVe64 414]

Question. Have you had first hand experience of RC4 or are you basing your comments on a YouTube video?

 

How else would you suggest instructions are given to a pilot?

 

For example, "Speedbird Concorde one. Contact New York Approach on one two one point nine."

 

How many separate words would you ask someone to record and how would you then input that instruction to an ATC program to output to the user?

 

It's easy to criticise something but not so easy to come up with a better solution.

?? I'm not criticizing anyone or anything. Yes I have used RC4. It's a nice product, but it's old, and there's been no updates for some time. The voice system never was it's strongest feature. RC5 was promised years ago. And yes, there is a better solution for more natural speech, by speaking in all numbers, letters and alphabet in 3 times,in the beginning, middle and end of a sentence. This is the method ProATC uses. RC4 has much more features and options than ProATC. PF3 also has some great features, wish all the developers could work together and make something really wonderful.

Don't understand why you think I'm criticizing anything, just stating the differences in speech methods used.

I'm only trying to help the community by offering to do stuff, free of charge.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,929]

MaVe64,

 

I've seen so many comments over the years about "robotic" sounding speech in RC4 it does get tiresome. You didn't say if you ran it via WideFS or on the same PC as FSX. I don't find it 'robotic' because I run it separately from FSX. Maybe if more users did that they would find it much improved.

 

It's old but it still does a job. What you're suggesting as an alternative requires a degree of skill on the part of the person recording their voice. We on the RC team had enough problems with pronunciation of the many centres around the world and airlines. Asking people whose first language is not English to record as you suggest will be extremely demanding if not impossible.

 

Good luck with your commendable voluntary work. I hope you can achieve your goal. It's not easy as you'[re probably finding out.

 

There are over 3000 separate wav files for each controller in RC4. That's because each airline, centre and many airports are enunciated rather than using the phonetic language. The last time I listened to ProATC-X it used a lot of phonetics. Whether users prefer that or the actual word is down to them.

[tf51d 284]

This is the method ProATC uses. RC4 has much more features and options than ProATC.

 

It does?

[Bjoern 1,153]

My only gripe with RC4's voice system is the rather limited range of callsigns. Other than that, I like it. It even facilitates situational awareness as the controllers sound different to their default ATC counterparts which I use for background chatter.

 

The vectoring has very seldomly let me down and the ILS information in the status monitor is very useful. And I like being praised for perfect flights.

[vololiberista 205]

 

tf51d, on 31 May 2016 - 9:57 PM, said:

It does for approaches, There's options to assign an alternate approach and runway for landing. You can't however change runways/procedures for takeoff, even though I believe the manual says you should, The menu is blank

In PF3 you can change the runway at any time. If you go for PF3 it's no lemon. RC4 is dated. PROATc has some problems in that it is not ICAO compliant and often asigns the wrong SID or STAR. In PF3 you have control over that.

Whatever you final decision is you will need to appraise yourself of proper ATC procedures because you will be under their control. No more chucking your a/c around the skies!

PF3 has gone from ver.3 in February to ver 3.1.18 this week. And now even includes a zero infront of the runway number if below 10 in ICAO. e.g. "Runway zero three" instead of "Runway 3" in FAA. PF3 is most definately the most up to date and continuously being tweaked not just because of bugs but also "wish lists" if they are correct procedure.

[Jarkko 59]

For me PF3 isn't so much an ATC program, but a mini game/scripting engine. In PF3, you control ATC and not the other way around, where ATC controls you.

For example, you will have to tell what are the possible names for SIDs/STARs you have at a given airport (also transition altitudes and so on). Only then it will know what can be assigned. After that, it will still have no knowledge how a given SID/STAR should be flown correctly.

If you end up flying in the completely wrong direction, PF3 won't correct you, because it has no idea you are doing something wrong. This is the level of SID/STAR support vololiberista is referring to (or at least that is my experience).

---

As for the original question: At some point, you will hopefully try flying online. When you find your self looking for a tool to train for flying online, then I would suggest VoxATC. It also has it's problems, but you learn to speak to ATC and it has full support for SIDs/STARs and is eager to vector you for the approach. Very dynamic in nature, just like online flying.

Problems with VoxATC are expensive voice sets, frequency ping pong and flying around high terrain.

Pilot2ATC might also be a option, but I don't own it so I can't say if would work in this situation.

[vololiberista 205]

For me PF3 isn't so much an ATC program, but a mini game/scripting engine. In PF3, you control ATC and not the other way around, where ATC controls you.

 

For example, you will have to tell what are the possible names for SIDs/STARs you have at a given airport (also transition altitudes and so on). Only then it will know what can be assigned. After that, it will still have no knowledge how a given SID/STAR should be flown correctly.

 

If you end up flying in the completely wrong direction, PF3 won't correct you, because it has no idea you are doing something wrong. This is the level of SID/STAR support vololiberista is referring to (or at least that is my experience).

 

---

 

As for the original question: At some point, you will hopefully try flying online. When you find your self looking for a tool to train for flying online, then I would suggest VoxATC. It also has it's problems, but you learn to speak to ATC and it has full support for SIDs/STARs and is eager to vector you for the approach. Very dynamic in nature, just like online flying.

 

Problems with VoxATC are expensive voice sets, frequency ping pong and flying around high terrain.

 

Pilot2ATC might also be a option, but I don't own it so I can't say if would work in this situation.

What you say is not entirely correct. PF3 is not a flight planning programme. So yes you have to create a fpl and tell PF3 what SIDs and STARs are attached to a specific runway and also the FAF and local transition altitudes. Once they are set they are set. Job done. Next time I use that fpl I don't need to do anything other than load it into PF3. I can choose to fly a SID/STAR myself or ask PF3 to vector me. PF3 knows where I am at all times.

PF3 only nags you when absolutely necessary. You don't get taken in front of a grand jury if you do an altitude bust! Which one of the other ATC programmes does!

To enter a SID or STAR takes no longer than the time to enter up to 7 characters.

PF3 will profile your fpl according to your specific aircraft too. So that descent rates are not to steep for example.

It is a misconception that ATC are responsible for giving you a fpl. You give them a fpl and you can in real life give them preferred STARs for example. Airlines will have fpl routes already setup and these are filed with ATC including preferred STARs if there is a choice at a specific runway. Different STARs are dependent on factors that no ATC programme or flight planning programme can know. For example the difference between ROKIB 6J and ROKIB 6S both are from runway 04R at LIPZ. Do you know the difference? ROKIB 6S is only given when Treviso is closed or your route does not take you across the Alps. So in real life the ATC controller giving you that STAR might face a repremand! So you need to know and be able to make the change. PF3's flexibility allows this.

As for flying on-line. Well how often are there controllers from start to finish? Rarely! For example if I want to fly from EGKK to LIMF now. I need Delivery, Ground, Tower, Departure, three Centre controllers, Approach, Tower, Ground. Ten separate controllers!!

At the end of the day it's your call as to what ATC programme you choose. At least with PF3 you can download a free demo and ask questions on the forum which will be answered promptly.

[nealmac 260]

Wow. I can't believe how many replies I've had since yesterday. I'm extremely grateful to all who have contributed. I've taken all opinions into consideration, and I think PF3 just edges it for me. I'll try out the demo first.

[mwa05 108]

This is going to be helpful and unhelpful at the same time.

 

I use RC4. And have done for about 8 years; it is now on my 3rd FSX computer.

 

My RC4 is not robotic in anyway, shape or form. However, it was when I first got it and I actually stopped using it for a while.

 

This is the unhelpful bit because I can't remember... Somebody, somewhere, re did the wav files. He (or she) was a sound engineer. I can't remember what they did or where I got it from, but I have them on a memory stick, so when I change PC's which is about every four years, I can restore "my" version of RC4. And I have the instructions written down on a bit of paper (safely filed).

 

Now, someone reading this will know precisely what I am talking about and may be able to point you to where you can get the updated wav set.

 

RC4 maybe getting on to be 9 years old now, however as a RW pilot, the ATC world has not moved on that much, and I still use it because it is very good, precise, and incredibly easy to use.

[Jarkko 59]

PF3 is not a flight planning programme. So yes you have to create a fpl and tell PF3 what SIDs and STARs are attached to a specific runway and also the FAF and local transition altitudes. Once they are set they are set. Job done.

 

Except that these values are not static in the real world. SIDs/STARs get added/removed, new versions of the SID/STAR get published. Once this happens, PF3 will tell you to fly SID/STAR that isn't in your aircraft's database.

 

You will have to check all your input values after each AIRAC cycle update (28 days) if you fly with current AIRAC.

 

It is a misconception that ATC are responsible for giving you a fpl.

 

I don't know where this misconception comes from. It's either the pilot or dispatch that files in the flight plan. ATC can then re-route you if need be (and if it doesn't but your flight into danger).

 

The misconception is, that you would always include SID/STAR in your flight plan. You would do this in the US and Germany, but in most of Europe, you would not include SID/STAR in the fpl. SID/STAR would be assigned by the ATC at flight time (dispatch does include the SIDs/STARS in the OFP for planning purposes).

[Bjoern 1,153]

This is the unhelpful bit because I can't remember... Somebody, somewhere, re did the wav files. He (or she) was a sound engineer. I can't remember what they did or where I got it from, but I have them on a memory stick, so when I change PC's which is about every four years, I can restore "my" version of RC4. And I have the instructions written down on a bit of paper (safely filed).

 

Now, someone reading this will know precisely what I am talking about and may be able to point you to where you can get the updated wav set.

 

You're thinking of MeatWater's sound files.

http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=schreger+radar+contact&CatID=root&Go=Search

[mwa05 108]

Well done that man!

 

That is it.

 

Don't be put off by the heading for FS2004. It is good for FSX as well.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,929]

My RC4 is not robotic in anyway, shape or form. However, it was when I first got it and I actually stopped using it for a while.

 

This is the unhelpful bit because I can't remember... Somebody, somewhere, re did the wav files. He (or she) was a sound engineer. I can't remember what they did or where I got it from, but I have them on a memory stick, so when I change PC's which is about every four years, I can restore "my" version of RC4. And I have the instructions written down on a bit of paper (safely filed).

 

Now, someone reading this will know precisely what I am talking about and may be able to point you to where you can get the updated wav set.

 

I believe you're referring to the Meatwater modified files. Those should still be available in the AvSim library.

 

[vololiberista 205]

Except that these values are not static in the real world. SIDs/STARs get added/removed, new versions of the SID/STAR get published. Once this happens, PF3 will tell you to fly SID/STAR that isn't in your aircraft's database.

 

SIDs and STARS don't get changed that often. Yes of course to be precise one checks the airac cycle. It is the fixes that frequently get renamed etc. Because of that the flightplans themselves have to be updated almost every month. But again suppose that a specific SID or STAR does get changed? All that means is I have to type up to 7 characters into PF3 to update it. That can't be such a big deal can it?

 

As for the other point it seems that a lot of Proatc users are under the misconception that ATC does the whole show.

To the OP when you decide on what ATC programme to have you will also need to be confident in your flight planning ability. The more accurate your fpl is the better the ATC experience will be. Oh and one other point you'll have to fly your aeroplane properly with the correct speeds etc. Not like Nerdcubed!!

[Bjoern 1,153]

Well done that man!

 

That is it.

 

Well, I primarily know this because I use the modified voices myself and consider them elementary to every installation.