Matrox introduces Parhelia

[Guest]

Paul,I think you're trying to pull my leg to suggest that if nVidia says their cards are coming out in third quarter '02 that you should expect them then -- I *know* you have to have been around the computer world long enough to know you have to add three to four months to *any* company's estimates.I also suspect you are pulling my leg about thinking the Maxtrox cards will be in consumer's hands (not beta testers and not reviewers) by the end of this month -- Matrox themselves says middle of July at earliest (and I'd suspect more like the end of the month before I receive my preorder). Anyone who has been around computers even slightly knows about Murphy's law when it comes to shipping dates. However, in this case I'm really really really hoping you're right .My own advice about buying graphics cards is the same as buying a computer or really anything you desire: buy when you see something you want, or you never will. But to each his own: no one is holding a gun to your head and I know you're just giving advice to those who are undecided. For those willing to wait it's probably an excellent plan (for some of us we'd just like the Lord to grant us patience and to grant it RIGHT NOW! :>).But the only thing I'm sure of is that flying with the Matrox card and three monitors will be an unforgettable experience (one that I can't wait to do!). If it does the job, and I think it's proven it can, all arguing over specs is really quite pointless.

[Guest]

Oh, and for the comment about DX9 I pass along the (admittedly biased) response from the Matrox board (just for comment -- please, don't shoot the messenger):"Parhelia has some dx9 support, but is not a full dx9 card.The difference?Nothing. Not today, not for the next year or 2.dx9 is not even out yet. And when it does come out, it will be quite a long time before we see any full-blown dx9 games.dx8.x has been out for quite a while now, and there are very, very few titles that even use all of dx8's functions.Your friends have been sucked in by marketing hype.oh...and even when dx9 does come out, and in the distant future when there are dx9 games, that does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that Parhelia won't run those games. There may be a couple of features in a couple of years that Parhelia won't be able to do, but no game publisher is going to release a game that will only run on card XXX. That would just be suicide."I really don't understand (or care) about DX whatever, but I do have to admit the argument about not worrying about something that won't have an impact for a year or two is persuasive. My typical PC has a shelf life of about two years (at which point my wife/daughter/grandson inherits as the chain moves down).

[Guest PaulL01]

Kellym said:">Paul, >>I think you're trying to pull my leg to suggest that if >nVidia says their cards are coming out in third quarter '02 >that you should expect them then -- I *know* you have to >have been around the computer world long enough to know you >have to add three to four months to *any* company's >estimates. "Not based on the past history of Nvidia, It has hit the mark each time, and no one is even second guessing the fact that they will be late to the party, But to state as you did: "you have to have been around the computer world long enough to know you have to add three to four months to *any* company's estimates." Shows that you have seemed to have lost track, or are just plain a little ignorant of what has been going on in the graphics industry. But then according to your statement I guess you will have to wait until November or December for the Matrox card. :-roll>I also suspect you are pulling my leg about thinking the >Maxtrox cards will be in consumer's hands (not beta testers >and not reviewers) by the end of this month -- Matrox >themselves says middle of July at earliest (and I'd suspect >more like the end of the month before I receive my >preorder). Anyone who has been around computers even >slightly knows about Murphy's law when it comes to shipping >dates. However, in this case I'm really really really >hoping you're right . You might want to do yourself a favor and do your homework before you post, I said exactly what Matrox has announced, go read the official announcement post by Matrox on June 18th at the Official Matrox site: http://www.matrox.com/mga/media_center/pre...helia_board.cfm "both versions are expected to begin shipment by June 30th, 2002".Yeah, you might have to wait 1,5, 10, 20 or 30 days depending who you order from, From recent experience with the GF3TI and GF4TI cards I have seen hardware to be in stores within 24hrs of the stated release date (Visiontek@Bestbuy) with the exception of the TI4200 card, but then that

[Guest]

>but then that?s Nvidia, I cant vouch for Matrox, but they >would be pretty foolish to be late as that is there only >advantage right now beside the triple head support. LOL. Now it's your turn to provide me amusement.The only advantage Matrox has is triple head support? Absolutely, and FS2K2 is "only" a game.ROTFLMAO. You're a riot, buddy.

[Guest PaulL01]

>>but then that?s Nvidia, I cant vouch for Matrox, but they >>would be pretty foolish to be late as that is there only >>advantage right now beside the triple head support. >>LOL. Now it's your turn to provide me amusement. >>The only advantage Matrox has is triple head support? >Absolutely, and FS2K2 is "only" a game. >>ROTFLMAO. You're a riot, buddy.Glad your so easily amused Kellym.....But Uh, you seem to have lost track that we are talking about the newer cards as in NV30 and RV300.As compared to NV30, yes that will be the only >real:)Paul

[Guest]

>As compared to NV30, yes that will be the only >real< >advantage in 3D gaming, as for the rest the advantage will >from even the little that is known will clearly be Nvidia's >as well as ATI's, but you know all that or have you seen >specs and performance numbers higher and better that what >has been available from Matrox as well as current users of >matrox's new card? :) What are the specs on running three monitors with the nVideia or ATI cards? How do they compare?

[Sonar5 3]

Hi Folks,My recommendation is to never, ever, ever buy a first release at retail as soon as it comes out. Save yourself some bucks and see what develops over the next few weeks as this retail version is put through the ringers and tested inside and out. Follow the forums and remember, buyer beware as sometimes you get what you pay for, but sometimes you don't. Especially wait and see how the multi monitor gamers benchmark these things as that is the big push Matrox is selling here, IMHO. Time will tell. :-)It is called delayed gratification and works very well when deployed. :-)*************************************The benchmarks will be released soon. Elrond posted a thread about a German site that have removed the results.Elrond's Thread:http://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboa...orum=DCForumID8HWZone Israeli website with graphs showing 1600 x 1200 and Matrox getting smoked. Interesting stuff, I say. Tomorrow will tell, as Matrox originally refused to give a copy to HardOCP according to H's website. Matrox did finally send them one so tomorrow is the day.HWZOne Graphs are in English, text is not.http://www.hwzone.co.il/archive.php?file=n...1024962420,5658,HardOcp Site detailing this:http://www.hardocp.com/Enjoy the reads, as it appears to me that Nvidia doesn't have a lot to worry about, IMHO. Unless those numbers are incorrect. Time will tell.Regards,Joe :-wavePS - One more German site shows the Parhelia outperforming with AA turned on at higher speeds, but worse if AA is turned off. Interesting:http://www.chip.de/produkte_tests/untersei...ts_8737734.html.Oshkosh Pictures From 2001 (Part 1) 78 Pics in Frames with 1mb in ThumbnailsHigh speed connection Recommended:http://home.attbi.com/~flypics1/FrameSet.htm.Oshkosh Pictures From 2001 (Part 2) 106 Pics in Frames with 1.5mb in ThumbnailsHigh speed connection recommended:http://home.attbi.com/~flypics2/FrameSet.htm.Picture Gallery of My Flight in a 1945 SNJ-6 on June 1st, 2002Joliet, Illinoishttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/FrameSet.htm.http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

[Guest PaulL01]

>>>As compared to NV30, yes that will be the only >real< >>advantage in 3D gaming, as for the rest the advantage will >>from even the little that is known will clearly be Nvidia's >>as well as ATI's, but you know all that or have you seen >>specs and performance numbers higher and better that what >>has been available from Matrox as well as current users of >>matrox's new card? :) >>What are the specs on running three monitors with the >nVideia or ATI cards? How do they compare?Im sorry, It must not have been made clear enough for you when it was stated that that it was clearly an advantage of the Matrox card as far as running three monitors, of course we do not know if NVidia or ATI will offer more than two monitor support, But what we do know is that both cards will out perform the Matrox, but incase you doubt it I recommend that you first buy the Matrox card, then after you stop complaining about the lack of performance that you thoght you would get, purchase one of the other cards that fully offer the "uneeded" DX9 support so that you can make a comparison for yourself. :)Let us all know how it goes, Okay? :)http://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/images/banana.gif http://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/images/banana.gif http://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/images/banana.gif http://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/images/banana.gif

[Guest]

Maybe I'm just not making myself clear, Paul. I'd *love* to use my nVidia card (or even a new one) to run FS on more than one monitor. My present card does run two monitors, but I can only run FS in one of them.I need that bigger view, that's without a doubt the biggest limitation in FS, and I see the Matrox card as *possibly* offering a solution. Will it have enough power to run FS? Undoubtably, and it will probably also be a superb card just as the ATI and nVidia cards are. But if it runs FS in more than one monitor it will beat them hands down.Now, if you truly think ATI or nVidia will offer this in the next couple of months I'll take your word for it and wait (heck, I may wait anyway, as I still have issues about the resolution the P card runs in). But don't throw benchmarks or other such crap that doesn't mean anything when it comes to running FS at me: that's truly unimportant in my world. I just need to see more of the FS world, somehow (without somehow mortgaging the farm and running that multiple computer solution).

[Guest PaulL01]

>Maybe I'm just not making myself clear, Paul. I'd *love* to >use my nVidia card (or even a new one) to run FS on more >than one monitor. My present card does run two monitors, >but I can only run FS in one of them. >>I need that bigger view, that's without a doubt the biggest >limitation in FS, and I see the Matrox card as *possibly* >offering a solution. Will it have enough power to run FS? >Undoubtably, and it will probably also be a superb card just >as the ATI and nVidia cards are. But if it runs FS in more >than one monitor it will beat them hands down. >>Now, if you truly think ATI or nVidia will offer this in the >next couple of months I'll take your word for it and wait >(heck, I may wait anyway, as I still have issues about the >resolution the P card runs in). But don't throw benchmarks >or other such crap that doesn't mean anything when it comes >to running FS at me: that's truly unimportant in my world. >I just need to see more of the FS world, somehow (without >somehow mortgaging the farm and running that multiple >computer solution). I hear yah, and would agree that "if" the Matrox card delivers a fairly even performance across three monitors it will be truely incredable! :) With the cost for even great 19" flat monitors so low I dont see that as a problem as much as the airconditioning and electric bills!!! LOL!But then a nice LED setup would take care of that but of course you do have to loose the farm. :(In my "world" though, a 3gig CPU still wont be enough as the kind of scenery as well as display settings that I like to run in FS2k2 still will bring it to its knees. (see my scenery link below) So I am hoping that the next generation of cards (at last :-roll ) will help out a bit more than the GF4TI didnt (Ooops!!!) :-eek OK, group hug! :):-beerchugLater,

[Guest]

>In my "world" though, a 3gig CPU still wont be enough as the >kind of scenery as well as display settings that I like to >run in FS2k2 still will bring it to its knees. (see my >scenery link below) Yipes! That is *seriously* good scenery, Paul. No wonder you are pushing the envelope for every last bit of, well, I guess everything (CPU, graphics card, RAM and probably the kitchen sink).Yes, I can see how you'd need as much as possible and then some -- since I assume you're the developer (and congrats) it looks to me like you're being far sighted and working on the assumption the hardware will catch up to you (which I *do* think is the right way to go, given the past).I already have two flat 19" monitors, so adding another seems to make sense. I will probably end up with the Matrox card just because the promise of having more screen real estate is just *too* tempting (even with 2D apps I find two monitors not enough most times, as ridiculous as that seems). Then again, I remember a time not long ago when a 14" monitor in B/W running FS (version 1) was pretty darn good. So how quickly we get spoiled.Take care and, truly, thanks for the dialog.