bug: / deploys air brakes but will not disengage them

[Guest ilh]

With SU1 I still have to disengage them with Shift-/ (to arm) and then Shift-/ (to disarm). Could we please have / disengage the air brakes directly?Lee Hetherington (KBED)

[Guest Ray CYYZ]

It seems to be a bit stranger then that Lee, if you watch the throttle panel, you'll see pressing the / key flips them to UP position but they do not stay there, they flop back to Flight Detent.Seems to be a bit strange.Ray

[Guest JamieG]

that is something that is adviesed by boeing, you never use the speedbrakes in flight past the flight detent, i am not sure if it is even possible to move the handle past that in real life! It is actually really dangersous if the handle was to go past that in real flight, thats why there is the flight detent marked!

[dfish 1]

After you set ground soilers are they deloying with strut compression or rev/thr? I haven't check that lately, has MS fixed that bug fom '02?Dave FisherCYYZ

[Jet Tech 31]

Hi Lee,I believe the reason this happens is due to the implementation of a flight spoiler detent in the PMDG 737. For some reason FS seems to think that the "/" key can Only used to Fully deploy the spoilers, not extend them to the flight detent. It will initially deploy them to the flight position but seems to get confused and keeps trying to extend them when depress the '"/" key again because it doesn't see the spoilers as deployed when in the Flight detent. I have told Robert about this and I believe that he is looking to see if a workaround is possible. RegardsPaul Gollnick :-coolTechnical Operations/Customer Operational SupportPrecision Manuals Development Groupwww.precisionmanuals.com

[Guest Ian_Riddell]

"that is something that is advised by boeing, you never use the speedbrakes in flight past the flight detent,"Correct, Jamie. I believe it causes too much vibration."i am not sure if it is even possible to move the handle past that in real life!"Ah... actually it is possible on a 737NG ;-) You can feel a notch when you pull the lever through the detent, but it will not stop it. There is no lock. I was told this a few weeks ago by a pilot.The normal Flight Spoilers will move higher, but you still won't get the Ground Spoilers to deploy (in the air). The Ground Spoilers have a mechanical interlock. When weight is put on the Right Main Gear, a steel push/pull cable attached to the gear activates a valve in the wheel well to unlock the Ground Spoilers.Hope this helps.Cheers.Ian.P.S. Has anyone tried to land with the gear up to see if the Ground Spoilers deploy??? :-)

[Jet Tech 31]

"Has anyone tried to land with the gear up to see if the Ground Spoilers deploy?"Ian, Your Killin me here :-lol :-lolRegardsPaul Gollnick :-coolTechnical Operations/Customer Operational SupportPrecision Manuals Development Group[www.precisionmanuals.com]

[Guest Ian_Riddell]

"Has anyone tried to land with the gear up to see if the Ground Spoilers deploy?""Ian, Your Killin me here"Not my intention, Paul ;-).... I'm just trying to figure out whether your 737's logic has some sound bases on which to build a great airplane simulator. If the airplane sensors are not modelled properly (Air-Ground System, IRS's, Rad Alt's, Air Data, etc), I can only see horrendous workarounds involved in effectively modelling the systems which receive this sensor data (If it already wasn't enough of a handicap basing your sim on MSFS :-)).The Electrical system is another key point. You have to get the basics right. For example, you can't even hook up Ext Pwr on a (real) 737 (dead ship) without first switching on the Battery. I didn't know this when I first worked on a 737... and this would come as a surprise to most PMDG users who have never worked on a 737. Killing the battery should also trip off external power (unexpectedly!)Hope this makes sense.Cheers.Ian.P.S. BTW, I do find it an interesting scenario, landing with the gear up. Other than airplane engine cowl/fuselage friction, I can't see anything to slow the aircraft down in real life. If the engines hit hard, they are designed to break away, but I can't see the resistance in the shearpins slowing the aircraft down a great deal. Once the engines have come adrift, you have lost your hydraulics (EDP's and ADP's, unless the APU was running, perhaps... Eker?). With hydraulics still available, a good stab on the rudder pedals might skew the aircraft sideways perhaps, offering a greater surface area (wind wise), to slow down the aircraft).

[Guest Lenny Zaman]

I don't find this a big problem actually, i just use following command for speedbrakes up: SHIFT+/;SHIFT+/ (yes, two times) and it works like a charm on any button assignment program that's to say the least a little bit decentgreetz

[Jet Tech 31]

Ian,Believe me, I don't doubt your expertise on the A/C. I had heard that ext power would not come on without the battery but when I tried turning off the battery with ext power connected on a brand new -800 at Boeing the power remained on??? I thought the battery was simply required to close the contactor on initial power up and then there was a wrap-around from the ext power to hold it??? Look at the schematics and drop me a note for certain. I have asked Robert for a modified Ext power scenario so stayed tuned. That landing with the gear up always reminds of the ending scene in Airplane with the 707 skidding down the runway :-lol :-lol Now arriving Gate 1, Gate 2, Gate 3, Gate 4 Paul GollnickTechnical Operations/Customer Operational SupportPrecision Manuals Development Group[www.precisionmanuals.com]

[Guest Ian_Riddell]

" I thought the battery was simply required to close the contactor on initial power up and then there was a wrap-around from the ext power to hold it??? Look at the schematics and drop me a note for certain."Hmmm... You have me thinking twice, now, Paul. I only have a simplified schematic with me at the moment... and, as I discovered recently, these are not to be trusted. The simplified one does, however, show dual sources of power for the Bus Power Control Unit (which controls the Ext Power Contactor)...i.e. the Switched Hot Battery Bus and DC Bus 1 (With External power already applied, I'd imagine that DC Bus 1 would be the main source of power for the BSCU). Perhaps I was thinking of a Classic? Or, perhaps, something completely different, like Standby Power :-lol (I remember something like this happening on a nightshift when, as you probably know, we are not at our best ;-)). BTW, in your version of the sim, if you start with a dead ship (booted up from Robert's(?) Cold and Dark startup file) and you switch on the battery, can you hear the humming of the instruments normally powered by the Static Inverter? Try cycling the Standby Power Switch and see what happens. In my version I got no sound prior to the switch being cycled... as if PMDG's logic needed to see the switch being moved to make the Auto Standby Power function operate.Thanks.Cheers.Ian.

[falcon999 24]

Hi Ian,>>P.S. BTW, I do find it an interesting scenario, landing with the gear up. Other than airplane engine cowl/fuselage friction, I can't see anything to slow the aircraft down in real life. If the engines hit hard, they are designed to break away, but I can't see the resistance in the shearpins slowing the aircraft down a great deal. Once the engines have come adrift, you have lost your hydraulics (EDP's and ADP's, unless the APU was running, perhaps... Eker?). With hydraulics still available, a good stab on the rudder pedals might skew the aircraft sideways perhaps, offering a greater surface area (wind wise), to slow down the aircraft). Maybe the crash of UAL 232 at Sioux City, IA is an example... if the plane started sliding sideways, the wing could fold and the fuse would roll and break up. Not a good thing!Also, IMHO I am not sure MSFS add-on's have progressed to the point where wheels up landings are modeled or tested. Interesting thought, though IMHO there are many other features I would like to see modeled first.George

[Guest Ian_Riddell]

"Maybe the crash of UAL 232 at Sioux City, IA is an example... if the plane started sliding sideways, the wing could fold and the fuse would roll and break up. Not a good thing!"Hi, George.I thought about this same incident just after I had posted the message... Now that I think about it, if you still had hydraulics, you may as well deploy the speedbrakes manually (most will still work). Forget the rudder! :-)Cheers.Ian