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Guest RangerJack

Where do I start

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Guest RangerJack

Ok, on Ray's assurance that I would get plenty of help around here, I purchased the product. First question is: Other than the 3(+1) install files, the SU1 Full and the current SID/STARS database, what other files/data should I have? What about these FMC updates. Then so you can see how new I am to this...Will somebody please explain the SIDS/STAR stuff from the basics.Thank you,Mike "Ranger" Stinchfield

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Guest OneTinSoldier

Hi Mike,I'm still feeling my way around this stuff too. But I can try and help you a little. Maybe someone lese can give a better explantion of the SID/STARS than me. I know it stands for Standard Instument Departure/Standard Terminal Arrival Route. To me it means the use of commonly used routes of departing and arriving at airports. But I just looked it up on google and found a pretty detailed explantion here...http://www.flightsimaviation.com/index.php...iontheory&ch=13http://www.flightsimaviation.com/index.php...iontheory&ch=14The other thing you will need is the AIRAC data. Get it at http://www.navdata.at/ I didn't know just what that acronym stood for and have been curious so I looked it up on google. AIRAC stands for Aeronautical Information Regulation And Control. Oh boy. :) The AIRAC data gets installed to here...C:Program FilesMicrosoft GamesFlight Simulator 9FMCWPNavDataYou may need to create thet folder first to point the AIRAC installer where to install the files to.To get started with the PMDG 737 you can do what I did and try out Fred Clausen's flight tutorial. It's in Avsim library and the filename is pmdg_737ng_flight_tutorial.zip. I did find a couple of directions in there to be missing/omitted(sorry Fred), but overall it is real good and got me going.Hope that helps Mike,Jim Richards

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Guest RangerJack

Jim,Great help, thanks. That will give me a start for today.Mike

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Guest tmetzinger

I'd recommend that once you get the AIRAC navdata installed so that your FMC can manage routes, that you work through Fred's tutorial mentioned earlier.I'd recommend leaving the SIDS and STARS alone for a little while until you've mastered the basic operations. There will be plenty of things to get used to.I'm going to be writing an advanced tutorial for SIDS/STARS in the near (September) future. It will cover how to add and modify these procedures, and how to work with ATC instructions and deal with things like reroutings and vectors.

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Guest OneTinSoldier

Awesome Tim! I anticipate the arrival of that tutorial. :DJim Richards

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Guest klucznik

Thank you Jim for your info. I too am a beginner with the 737NG and although I use PS1.3 on occasion I find each FMC, on each add-on that has it, is slightly different. Thanks for the reference to Fred Clausen's tutorial. A quick read of it indicates that the tutorial will be of great help. I do have a question: Did you choose ...FS9FMCWPDATA because of some FS9 requirement or could you have chosen any folder to store your data? Just wondering. Now it is time to get bold and go through Fred's tutorial.Thanks again. Regards Hi 737NG users,

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No, the FMCWP/NAVDATA folder location is required. This is true for FS2002 and FS9. I will assume the the aircraft's FMC looks for the navdata info as regards to the location, not the simulator... [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/196432/winglets_lg.jpg [h3] AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF2 MX 32 MEG and still runs GOOD!|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h3]

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Guest RangerJack

Ok gents, I spent the last 2 days with the tutorial and manual. Here is what I have come up against:1. It took me a while (and I still do not know for sure)to realize the APU has started. Is there a sound for this? Eventually I noticed the guage movement (APU exhaust temp) and hit the APU generator switches anyway. Now are those switches for the generators supposed to stick to on or are they supposed to flip back? The only reason I think I started the APU is because the engine start procedure worked fine for me.2. Believe it or not the whole flight until landing went off without a hitch besides the fact I had to reactivate the flight plan for some reason after take off, I noticed this when VNAV and LNAV would not engage.3. In landing I found things quite difficult (Fred did say this comes with practice:-)) I captured the glideslope (came in from below) and kept it until about the 5 degree flap point. Then all the sudden the plane lost the GS and started an incredibly strong acceleration and slight climb. I know that is not enough info but all I did was follow the instructions exactly. Anyone know what might of happened?I will try to run through it again tonight.Thanks,Mike "Ranger" Stinchfield

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Guest tmetzinger

>>1. It took me a while (and I still do not know for sure)to>realize the APU has started. Is there a sound for this? >Eventually I noticed the guage movement (APU exhaust temp) and>hit the APU generator switches anyway. Now are those switches>for the generators supposed to stick to on or are they>supposed to flip back? The only reason I think I started the>APU is because the engine start procedure worked fine for me.The way you know the APU is running is when the APU GEN lights come on. You'll see the EGT go up and stabilize as the APU lights off, but that's about it. The external power, APU and Engine gen switches ARE "return to center" momentary contacts. That's because what you're actually doing when you use them is changing the position of much bigger relays elsewhere in the aircraft.>2. Believe it or not the whole flight until landing went off>without a hitch besides the fact I had to reactivate the>flight plan for some reason after take off, I noticed this>when VNAV and LNAV would not engage.This sounds like you may have forgotten to ACTIVATE or EXEC the flight plan, or you changed aircraft/liveries in there somewhere. Anytime you change the aircraft, livery, you wipe out and cold start the FMC.>3. In landing I found things quite difficult (Fred did say>this comes with practice:-)) I captured the glideslope (came>in from below) and kept it until about the 5 degree flap>point. Then all the sudden the plane lost the GS and started>an incredibly strong acceleration and slight climb. I know>that is not enough info but all I did was follow the>instructions exactly. Anyone know what might of happened?It's possible you clicked on the TOGA button (the upper left screw on the MCP).What I try to do on ILS approaches is have the airplane stable at the final approach speed Vref +20 knots, and 10 degrees of flap, after I am on the localizer but before I intercept the glideslope. Then as the glideslope indicator starts to come down, I drop the gear, set the autothrottles back to VRef, and then extend the remainder of the flap as speed permits. This way you've got very little to do on the last 4 miles of the approach except for looking out for the runway.

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Guest Ray CYYZ

Good to see you don't hate me yet Mike :-lol1) The switches are toggles and will spring back to center position. The APU is in the tail, so you are not going to hear it in the cockpit. The APU provides not only power, but bleed air to spin the engines fast enough to start them. No bleed air, no engine start.2) I wonder whether you activated your flight plan but forgot to press the EXEC button on the FMC keypad.3) Landing falls in the catagory of juggling eggs. In the real world, you would have a First Officer helping you out. Since we don't have that option, you have a pretty insane amount of work to get done in record time. A few common things that we forget:a) Tune Nav radios (BOTH!) to the ILS for the runway:( On the FMC Approach page, choose and lock flaps/Vref choice. (if you can't find it, hit Init Ref button, then the ;)You want to be stable at flaps with gear down so you can have a smooth ride. Feel free to start earlier as you are not paying for fuel until you find yourself not forgetting things, then you can speed things up, coming in faster with less flaps and dumping your gear as you start down the glideslope.Ray

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Guest RangerJack

Ray and Tim,Thanks for the great advice gentlemen. I will print these notes and try the tutorial again. Ray was right about the help:DThanks again,Mike

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Guest RangerJack

Gents,Wow, except for the fact I forgot to enter my landing speed, everything went off without a hitch that time. I noticed it at the last minute and by the time I changed it the plane attempted but could not adjust so I missed the landing. I am very glad I took Ray's advice and bought this. So here are some more questions.1. For further practice, does anyone have a shorter route than Fred's tutorial? I am not up to speed with creating a route although I do understand what a SID/STARS is now. However, what resources would I need to start creating routes like Fred did where you don't have to punch in every waypoint? Do I have to get the approach charts to know all these SID/STARS? I see in the forum talk about FSBuild, do you recommend this product?2. What does a plane do on a real short route? Say LA to Las Vegas, or LAX to KSAN? Do they even use SID's and STARS?3. What would I do in case of a missed approach? I take it from the approach chart it is dependant on the airport, but how would you use the FMC to get back in the approach? Or would you use the FMC at all for this?4. Where are the flightplans I create saved? And how do I "load" saved plans?That is enough I guess:DThanks all,Mike "Ranger" Stinchfield"Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on to the Ranger objective and complete the mission though I be the lone survivor"

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Guest RangerJack

One more thing,Fred says to empty the center tank, or rather set it to 0 in the tutorial. I keep getting an INSUFFICIENT FUEL message in the FMC when I do (which makes sense). So I end up leaving 50% in the center tank. Am I missing something? Fred?Mike

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Guest Ray CYYZ

Hmm, haven't tried his tutorial but it is not a problem to leave more fuel in the tanks, just remember that this changes the weight of the plane which will affect any reference speeds that he may have noted. (V1,Vr,V2,Vref)When you get that message, the FMC is telling you that the the fuel (minus what you have in reserves) is not enough to reach the destination. This is not always the case, and you can get this error popping during entering of the flight plan prior to setting the cruise altitude as the plane burns fuel poorly at lower altitudes.Addicted yet? :-lolRay

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Guest ba747heavy

>One more thing,>>Fred says to empty the center tank, or rather set it to 0 in>the tutorial. I keep getting an INSUFFICIENT FUEL message in>the FMC when I do (which makes sense). So I end up leaving>50% in the center tank. Am I missing something? Fred?Are you using the -600? Because the fuel levels I indicated were only for the -700 Winglet variant. Other than that, I cannot fathom why you would be getting an insufcient fuel message. :(

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Guest Ray CYYZ

>1. For further practice, does anyone have a shorter route>than Fred's tutorial? I am not up to speed with creating a>route although I do understand what a SID/STARS is now. >However, what resources would I need to start creating routes>like Fred did where you don't have to punch in every waypoint?> Do I have to get the approach charts to know all these>SID/STARS? I see in the forum talk about FSBuild, do you>recommend this product?I'll see if I can slap together something shorter for you. FSBuild is handy in that respect for real flights, but not short flights. Charts and/or addon programs get you your SID/STAR info, but due to everyone wanting to make a buck, they are rarely free.>2. What does a plane do on a real short route? Say LA to Las>Vegas, or LAX to KSAN? Do they even use SID's and STARS?It depends on the area and how congested it is. They are basically used to ease the workload on ATC as they can hand out a SID or STAR and not have to micromanage the aircraft. Keep in mind that it is rather cost ineffective to fly heavies short distances, but since we don't pay for the fuel, we can cheat.>3. What would I do in case of a missed approach? I take it>from the approach chart it is dependant on the airport, but>how would you use the FMC to get back in the approach? Or>would you use the FMC at all for this?MA currently are not implemented fully. In the real bird, you would have your MA path entered in the FMC after the runway. Anthony posted a pic showing he's got it done, expect it in the next patch. Each runway will have it's own published MA. You would kick it in by hitting you (G)o (A)round button (this is the same as your (T)ake(O)ff button. (again back to charts)>4. Where are the flightplans I create saved? And how do I>"load" saved plans?When you save them, it will be saved out from the FMC as ###. You can load it back by typing in that exact name on the FMC Company Route line (just under where you enter the Origin. They are physically located in the ..PMDGFLIGHTPLANS directory.Ray

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Guest RangerJack

Thanks again Ray. Yes I am addicted and I feel like I am learning a lot and have a long way to go...why do I get like this? :)Mike

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Guest RangerJack

Fred,First, thank you for your work on this tutorial. It has been great instruction and has already provided hours of enjoyment. It is guys like you that make this worthwhile.The first time I used the tutorial I used the winglet version and got the same message, but I could have done something wrong as it was the first. The second time I did the tutorial, I did in fact use a 700/no winglets. So that was probably the case. I will run through it again today with the 700/winglets as you intended and report back.Thanks again Fred.Mike "Ranger" Stinchfield

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Guest ba747heavy

Mike,Another thing to watch is where the fuel message appears. Does it appear on the ground? During the climb out? If it only appears on the ground and the climbout, then you are probably OK, as long as the message doesn't pop up during cruise.And, before I forget, your welcome for the tutorial! Its comments like yours (and others in this thread) that make writing them worthwhile :-hah

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Guest PhilipManwaring

>>1. For further practice, does anyone have a shorter route>than Fred's tutorial? I am not up to speed with creating a>route although I do understand what a SID/STARS is now. >However, what resources would I need to start creating routes>like Fred did where you don't have to punch in every waypoint?> Do I have to get the approach charts to know all these>SID/STARS? I see in the forum talk about FSBuild, do you>recommend this product?>Mike,For a short and scenic practice flight, you might try KLAX to KLAS. This route takes about 50 minutes to fly, depending on traffic conditions. Set up the route as follows:Original: KLAXDest: KLASDeparture: DAG.LAXX3 (or whatever the latest LAXX number is).Arrival: DAG.CLARR1 (or the latest CLARR in the navdata). You'll need to select an arrival runway. Since you'll be using the ILS, you'll need one of the westbound runways - it shouldn't matter which one, but the left one would be more commonly used. Give yourself about a 15nm runway extension - too long of an extension will put you into the mountainside. Clear any route discontinuities and you're good to go. I suggest flight level 250 for this short trip. You'll notice that the SIDs and STARs are used on this short flight, but that the termination point of the SID is also the starting point of the STAR. This often happens on short hops.Advanced addons like this open up a whole new world of learning. Hope this helps - enjoy!Philip Manwaring

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Guest RangerJack

Philip,Thanks! I'll try that out as soon as I get a break. I might post some questions though since I am not exactly sure how to "give myself a runway extension" or for that matter, what that means :(But I will attempt it first!Thanks again,MikeBTW any advice on what flight planner I should purchase as I learn this stuff?

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Guest ba747heavy

>BTW any advice on what flight planner I should purchase as I>learn this stuff?FSBuild 2.0 would be my first choice, with FSNav a close second :)

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Guest RangerJack

Fred,Thanks for the advice. Am I right in that FS9 is still not supported with FSBuild 2.0? If that is the case, is it still useful as a reference for FS9 SID/STARS and commonly used routes? Or, should I just wait until they get it squared away? As Always, thanks much.Mike

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>Thanks for the advice. Am I right in that FS9 is still not >supported with FSBuild 2.0?There's really not that much to support. The only support needed for FS9 is the new location of the default .pln files.That is taken cared of in the 2.1 update.Regards.Ernie.

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