I'm not sure I understand the N1 limit values given in PMDG's 737.I was in cruise, checking the N1 Page and I saw the following(un-derated values):GA 95.8%CON 102.1%CLB 100.1%CRZ 101.6%I've always thought that the N1 limit values should be (from greatest to least % ).... GA, CON, CLB, and CRZ.The Bulfer manual seems to show this order, too.Any clues?Thanks.Cheers.Ian.

That's an easy one ;-)Thrust limits will increase with altitude...You can only compare them at comparable altitude. GA is usually not engaged while in cruize...anthonyAnthony MertonPrecision Manuals Developmenthttp://www.precisionmanuals.com

Woooohhh too late to edit...Just realized I wrote something terribly silly ;-)Disregard....No clue....anthonyAnthony MertonPrecision Manuals Developmenthttp://www.precisionmanuals.com

So, you want them to delay this patch until they can finish this item?What if they release patch in it's current state, then add the item to SU3, i don't see why single patch got to solve everything and take a year to complete.

*SIGHS*[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

I'm joining you Randy, I'm joining you ;-)Oh well...BTW the *first* cut of this stuff is ready !- blank mcp digts- one push- two pushs- target speeds based on MTOW speeds for flaps- dual / single ap...anthonyAnthony MertonPrecision Manuals Developmenthttp://www.precisionmanuals.com

I hope my comment didn't cause too much of them sighs here.Trying to give reasonable views to this thing, as a paying customer who I am (but who hasn't touched bird since it was released, due to the problems back then). I hope to see this bird fly with all systems go. That's all really.Tero

We all have been working our **@&Y# off just so you know Tero. No one wants a perfect trouble free product more than those who have invested so much *free* time to see this come along, so while I understand you as a paying custmer want *perfection* for your 40 bucks, I hope you look clearly at what has been added+fixed in SU2 without a "ALL PROBLEMS" that have been brought up in this forum need to be addressed mentality. There are many things that will NOT be part of this phase like TCAS so that cannot be delt with. If you have not touched the product since the first release you are far behind the times and it's a little more difficult for me to give your concerns any weight when you have not even bothered to look at so-called issues yourself. I hope this changes for you in SU2.[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

Hi Tero, I really have to agree with Randy on this issue. I am going to venture out on a limb here and proclaim that I enjoy flying this bird 10 times more than 767PIC. The systems are there and work extremely well. I don't run into random problems during my flight, and it seems like 98% of problems were fixed with SU1. Pull this baby out of the hangar and fly it around a little...you might be pretty surprised at how well she flies (by hand, automatics, whatever...).Also, I think the customer service that PMDG provides is, hands down, the best in the business. The fact that Anthony and the rest of the team is, not only active in this forum, but listens to user issues/problems/suggestions (this one being an excellent example) speaks volumes for them as developers. People are entitled to their own opinions, but how about giving some credit where credit is due. How about saying "Thanks, keep up the great work.".Jeff

Randy,Let me put it this way. And I'm gonna be frank.I really don't care how much you have invested your free time in the development of this product. I think it is great that you have, but things like that don't make much difference to me. Sounds harsh, huh ?What matters is this. Something was released a few months ago, that claimed to be doing this and that. It didn't. It was a mess. Then time went by, and fixes were produced. Was it now performing per the standards set by PMDG itself ? No. Still bugs, a lot of them.Now is the time for the SU2. I'm really hoping that this update will make the bird see the light again in my simulator. I will follow this forum very tightly for the few days after release. If there are still countless of messages saying this and that doesn't work, I'll probably not be bothered to fire it up. And I don't mean the kind of types "WHY DOES VNAV NOT WORK WHEN I PRESS IT ON THE GROUND!!!!", but the kind of types what, for example, Ian Riddell writes. And he _knows_ what he's saying. Do you REALLY expect, that after flying 767PIC for almost three years, that I'd put up with a bird so full of small bugs such as this, and fly it despite all of them. Think again. I use simulator to simulate realism, I try to do everything very carefully, very realistically. There's no way in hell that I'm gonna waste my time with an aircraft, that does Vnav dives, calculates this and that wrongly, doesn't have the possibility to add MAP points etc. etc. Oh, I know that most of the bigger bugs were corrected in SU1, but a LOT are left. I know that you (including PMDG) now think that "what an #### he is!". My intention is not to insult the bird, you, or anyone else here. I'm trying to get this through: no matter how hard you or anyone else works, no matter how many promises you have said, how many extra options are available in the "next" version, no matter how glorious it will all be one day. None of that matters. What matters is what I see running in front of me. If THAT doesn't work as it should, I couldn't really care less. I tolerate patches, service updates and all, I really do. But I also think that problems that are there, should be fixed. This "all problems fixed mentality" or whatever you like to call it, is just because I really don't have the time or interest to wait for updates, new updates... again new ones. I have paid for an aircraft, and I expect it to perform as advertised. That simple. Maybe I'm not being fair, but I think that you should also look in the mirror. As a PIC767-user yourself, you should know that when "it delivers, it delivers". When it's brilliant, it doesn't need any long-winded defense talks. End of rant. I hope the new SU2 "delivers". I really do. Best of luck!Teroedit: I forgot. I agree that PMDG support is probably the best there is, and kudos to PMDG for that. Really. Jeff, I'm not the type of guy who will post "great work!" 10 times a week. I do that often, and I do that when I see something that I think is "great". I think the bird, concept and all in itself is great... but the shortcomings are definitely not great. You can count me as a "proud supporter of PMDG", and a "happy customer", because the bird flies ok, and does most of the stuff as published. But that's just that: "most of the stuff". Oh, and I am entititled to expect a lot. No doubt.

"Woooohhh too late to edit... Just realized I wrote something terribly silly"LOL...No problemo, Anthony.... I'm too dumb* to know which is the silly part :-lol Cheers.Ian.*Contrary to what some people think :(

> > *SIGHS*>I agree.I'm a software engineer myself and I know that even months of testing will not reproduce all possibilities and reveal all bugs.And I think that PMDG is doing a good job.You all should have a look at the german translation of FS9!I nearly could not find the key assignment for opening the doors because the translation was completetly wrong.But the difference is, that some companies ignore any comments by their customers. If I post a message in a forum saying that the jetways in FS9 are too high even for a 747, does anyone think that this will be considered in the next version???As far as I'm concerned: Good job PMDG!And now: Would some administrator please close this thread?:-hah GreetingsThomasEdit: Excuse my english...well, I could do a better translation of FS9:-)

>And now: Would some administrator please close this>thread?:-hah Woah, hold on, I didn't want to start a rant thread about the software's problems. Let's stick to the title of the thread here and get this go-around behaviour sorted.Anthony, it's great to hear you've done some work on this already!So we're still lacking exact details about the thrust value on the first press of TOGA. It seems that a value of N1 which achieves a climb rate of around 1500fpm with gear up and flaps at 15 would provide the realism we're after.

"It seems that a value of N1 which achieves a climb rate of around 1500fpm with gear up and flaps at 15 would provide the realism we're after."Agreed... now that being said.... hmmmm... :-hmmmAnthony MertonPrecision Manuals Developmenthttp://www.precisionmanuals.com

Do you REALLY expect, that after flying 767PIC for almost three years, that I'd put up with a bird so full of small bugs such as this, and fly it despite all of them. Think again. I use simulator to simulate realism, I try to do everything very carefully, very realistically. There's no way in hell that I'm gonna waste my time with an aircraft, that does Vnav dives, calculates this and that wrongly, doesn't have the possibility to add MAP points etc. etc. Oh, I know that most of the bigger bugs were corrected in SU1, but a LOT are left. Well let be be FRANK back Tero, It amazes me that you can fly PIC for over 3 years and not ONCE mention that it does not descend in a PTH DEScent at IDLE! Funny our little bird here DOES? Maybe you should put that double standard away eh? I can give you a LONG LIST but hey don't want to *upset* anyone over there .....[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg