Vertical Sync improved FPS and Smoothness for me in XP

[Guest ScottPilot]

Hello All!I have been tweaking my graphics settings once again in FS2K2, specifically trying to get the Dreamfleet 737, PIC 767, DF Archer, and F1Software C421, to run smoothly and with higher frame rates.Well, I have finally found the settings for my system that have achieved that.My average frame rates with most of my aircraft have been around 13-15 FPS on the ground and 20-25 FPS (Locked @ 25) in the air.However, using the add-on aircraft above, my average FPS on the ground were around 3-5 FPS! The stuttering was so horrible, these airplanes were unflyable.Well, after removing these airplanes from FS2K2, I got to the point were I wanted to make them work since I had spent the $$ on them.I have always understood that I needed to leave the Vsync OFF on my video card to get the best performance possible. Since I have upgraded to Win XP Pro, I have noticed more stuttering than in Win ME. So, I went back and changed my video settings and turned ON the vertical sync, and guess what, my FPS using the above mention airplanes has went up SIGNIFICANTLY!Now my average FPS with these aircraft is around 15-18FPS on the ground and 23-25FPS in the air!Also, there is absolutely NO STUTTERING AT ALL and my FPS and smoothness with my other airplanes are even better!So, I guess with Windows XP Pro, Vsync can be a GOOD thing!I think I'm finally to the point were I can spend more time flying FS instead of having to tweak it all the time.It is sure nice to be able to finally fly the add-on aircraft mentioned above!My System Specs:Intel PIII 1 GHZ (Built this one myself)512 MB SDRAM120GB Hard Disk(s)Visiontek Xtasty Geforce 4 MX440 64 MB DDR RamDual 17" Monitors refresh rate - 75HZSoundblaster Live! X-Gamer 5.1 cardCH Products Flight Sim Yoke & Rudder PedalsMS Force Feedback JoystickWindows XP ProMS Flight Sim 2K2 Pro Settings:1240X1024 16 BitGround Shadows: OFFAll sliders right except Terrian Mesh complexity at 70I do move both scenery density sliders from VERY DENSE to Normal when using the above mentioned add-on aircraft. They are at VERY DENSE for ALL my other airplanes.Hopefully this info will help anyone else with a simuliar system to mine.Scott :-)

[Guest]

Turning vertical sync on shouldn't increase your framerates at all. I'm no expert, but technically speaking, that should be a physical impossibility. There must be something else in the equation that accounts for the boost in your frame rates.Here's why: (according to my understanding of V-Sync)The computer monitor continously draws whatever image is on the video card's primary frame buffer. This is regardless of whether the vertical sync is turned on or off for the video card. Let's say you had a monitor that only had a 10x5 pixel screen like this:o......... (o = pen position)........................................The monitor has a "pen" that starts in the upper left hand corner of the screen and begins setting the red, green, and blue values for each pixel from left to right, top to bottom. If the monitor was halfway through drawing a single frame, it would look like this:xxxxxxxxxx (o = pen position)xxxxxxxxxxxxxxo.........................Where does the RGB information for each pixel come from? The graphics card of course!y you would be offended as you are human aren't you? We all can fall prey to that tendency and it happens more often than not especially when dealing with "tweaking" tis why we must very methodical in our testing right? Sorry if you feel I was/am trying to come across aggressive like, I'm not. :)Anyway I find yours and Scott's results a little more than puzzling to say the least, even if somehow the registry was reversed you wouldn

[Guest]

Hi Scott,Oh, I'm positive you and Kathy are getting better framerates with VSync enabled...Its just an interesting puzzle because enabling VSync technically should not increate framerates (if the framerates were anywhere near your monitor's refresh rate (60-120), it should lower them in fact). It would certainly eleminate any tearing issues, but actual framerates should not go higher.The only thing I can think of is if there are some latency issues related to the bandwith squeeze in FS (unlike most games), but I still can't see how it'd make a dent. Just for curiosities sake, it should definately be tested further... So thanks to you for bringing it to light (and Kathy's confirmation).Take care, http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

[B777ER 2,483]

Man, some of you guys go so indepth on some of these subjects. I get totally lost after the second word. :-hah

[Guest]

Sorry bout that Eric...Bottom line at the moment:Test your video card with VSync ON (Enabled) and see if you find any framerate improvement. The setting can be found in your normal Nvidia display control panel under DirectX. If you don't see an improvement, either leave it ON or revert it back to Auto or OFF.Good luck, http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

[Guest gasebah]

LOL.Alex

[siggy 154]

Hi Elrond et al,Couldn't it be better/smoother with VSYNC enabled because then FS can use these pauses waiting for VSYNC and do its other tasks inbetween calculating frames rather than squeezing it between frames produced back-to-back ? Squeezing all the other stuff between frames produced at a too high locked frame rate might be less effective than doing these things regularly between two frames (which would also happen when the locked frame rate is low enough, I guess).Cheers,Siggy

[Guest Simpit]

I agree with Siggy.FS2K2 seems to be very unique in that it has been designed to take quality into account when rendering frames. Most other 3D enabled programs on the market do not have the intense variability that FS has to take into account with regard to rendering terrain. etc. They just run faster when you get all the system bottlenecks out of the way. An example of this is using the framerate limiter in FS. Remember, by setting this lower, you give the program more time between frames to improve the quality of the image, instead of just making it throw things out as fast as possible with less time spent on the details in each frame. Something similar might be happening here.Of course, I'm not sure if a program can tell if VSYNC is on or not, but that's another question...Derek

[Guest gasebah]

Apart from all that, there is no sensible reason to set V-SYNC to off.1. You will not get a noticeable improvment in fps by setting it to off.2. At least you get some noticeable picture smearing if you set it to off.So why turn it off in the first place?Alex

[Guest]

I'd have to disagree with #1, Alex. In most games (I have not tried this with FS2002) I can see a noticable decrease in frame rate with VSYNC on. That's the main reason why hardcore gamers leave VSYNC off.

[Guest]

>VS on - FPS 20 >VS off - FPS 18 Kathy,Did you reboot between each test? Usually when you run a game after another game has previously been run (even if it's the same game) it tends to not perform as well as it did previously. I think XP is probably better about this than Windows 98/ME... This might be accounting for your frame rate loss.I run FS2002 on Windows 2000. I know I'll see a very slight, almost indetectable performance drop if I don't reboot the computer before attempting to go flying.IL-2 suffers even worse...

[Guest gasebah]

O.K. I get your point. However when I said noticable I meant a decrease you can see and feel. I did not mean a benchmark difference. Let us say your computer and graphics card is not capable to deliver game xyz fluidly, it will not go away by turning V-Sync off.Benchmarking is a different story. Of course if I force V-Sync on in 3dMark2001 I decrease the fps by 60% (depending on system and refresh rate), but does it look worse or less fluid? No.Can we agree on that?Alex

[Guest]

Hi Alex,I think what Jason was saying was: in many games besides FS, having VSync disabled *does* increase framerate and fluidness. The kick about Nvidia drivers is they can't be customized on a per-game basis (unfortunately). So while an FS might like VSync on (for some reason as yet unknown), many games like it off - Quake III Arena based games off the top of my head being a set of them. If you keep it on in the control panel, its on for all games and 3D apps.Take care, http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

[Guest]

Hi Siggy,Thats an interesting point and is a much better phrased way of describing the latency posibility I was refering to. Bottom line will be if more people see better framerates with VSync ON than those with it OFF. The reason behind it is an interesting puzzle though.Take care,http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

[Guest PaulL01]

quick question scott, how did you go about enabling/disabling Vsync?Thanks,