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Guest Scott Campbell

So When Did We All Decide to Kill Freeware?

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We don't there is enough around, look at the great work for example FSW / Falcon50 / FSbuild / Landclass Assistant /AFCAD / Traffictools / etc... :-)However if a product is really good then I'm willing to pay a few bucks for all the development hours and efforts they made to make us happy :-) So in short I'll believe there will be always freeware / shareware / payware around... :-)Happy flying and yes it's only a hobby :-)awfEHAM


 

André
 

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Been looking at this irritating post much too long now! :-fumeIn the first place............... two years ago, the models were not near as complex; such as exterior, interior, flight modeling, detailed virtual cockpit, & many more working parts. So what does two years ago have to do with today? We are now looking at far more hours in development & research!More and more developers are switching, usually with less-than-wonderful results.Says who??? When I hear of payware developments such those from Dreamfleet, FSD, PSS, Flight1, Real Air simulations, & a few others....... I can usually count on a product that's involved a number of individuals doing what they do best in a combined effort. That way, I can usually count on a released product with an exceptional exterior, VC cockpit, manuals, re-fined flight dynamics, new inovations, & product support. This DOES happen to a degree in the freeware community as evidenced with the Falcon 50. But as usually is the case, will the developers of the Falcon 50 continue to release new freeware products of this calibur year after year? The answer is NO! You know, it's really sad that our society places money on such a high pedestal. Flightsim is a hobby, not a profession. I say keep it that way. What a "crock". If you want more realism & support then prepare to pay for it!!!! L.Adamson

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I would only wish that devolopers at least sell their creations at reasonable prices. Many are not IMHO. :-(There are numerous addons I would purchase if they were offered at a price I could justify once converted to Canadian currency. I would also think that many of these addons would sell more copies and thus we all would win.SteveCYYZ

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Guest Lindy

Flightsim is a hobby, not a profession. I say keep it that way. Adam's post seems to imply that people don't spend money on their hobbies. Oh yeah....ask a golfer, skier, equestrian, bicyclist, etc. Everybody who is seriously into a pursuit as a hobby will spend money beyond their initial investment (golf clubs, skis/poles, horse/tack, bicycle, etc.) Why should flight simming be any different. But I am amazed at the quality of the freeware that I've downloaded in just the last week..... wonderfully detailed scenery areas, some great planes, even an automobile and a motorcycle!!Freeware is not dead...... it's not dying (as far as I can see). I suspect Adam found something he wanted, then discovered it was payware and got a little ticked off. :-lol -Lindy :-rotor wannabe

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What is worse is killing whales ,foxes , badgers ,mooses ect and these things actually happen you know !

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I agree with both Adam and Steve. And thank you Donmo. I appreciate your great work and glad to hear you plan on continuing it.

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>I would only wish that devolopers at least sell their creations at >reasonable prices. Many are not IMHO. >There are numerous addons I would purchase if they were offered at a price I could justify once converted to Canadian currency.I don't know what you mean by reasonable. Most Commercial add-ons are in the $20 to $40 (US) range. That seems resonable to me. >I would also think that many of these addons would sell more copies >and thus we all would win.A lower price would probably result in more sales, but that may not be enough income to make up for the lower price.For example if you sell a product at $30, and sell 3,000 units.To make the same income at $20 you'd have to sell 1,500 more units.That's 1,500 more units you'd have to sell just to have the exact same income at the lower sale price. I can't imagine anyone lowering the price in that situation unless they were sure the lower price would result in double the sales. More sales may not result in more income, if so there's no benefit in lowering the price. You just end up with the same income but more demanding customers to support. There's of course the risk that you don't sell the required 1,500 extra units, then you have less income than if you just kept the price where it originally was.These are the factors the commercial or shareware developer has to take into account when setting the price.Regards.Ernie.


ea_avsim_sig.jpg

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Adam,You've always been good at whipping up a storm ! Let me ask, have you ever produced anything ? Spent perhaps the best part of 200 hours + ? If so and it's good, why not ask a penny or two, after all it's our choice to buy it or not, as it is your choice to share it or indeed sell it. Consider this, if you've actually SPENT money on the tools to create something, whats wrong with recouping some of your investment if you believe in it ?As a lot of people here have said, there have been some terrific add ons created by freeware designers, (funnily enough I've just down loaded a FREE scenery by a PAYWARE designer.....Silverstone by Barry Perfect....Thanks Barry !)and long will it continue. As one designer leaves the freeware arena, two more come in and on it goes. Some leave because even as freeware, users decide to launch attacks...(very sad and not condusive to enhancement of the hobby,) some leave because they get harrased to death to do this or do that. Remember most have family and other lives as well.When I see a designer pummeled in forums for doing basically nothing, I wonder what kind of toe rags we have in this a so called community. Interestingly, they always seem to hide behind nick names. I wonder again, what have they ever given us ?If we are to look at the whole arena, lets look closely at the commercials. Crap products, even crappier service and an attitude that says "How dare you little man even think to ask for a bug fix". Again,in respect of the freeware guys, give tham support.....they can only get better !Remember this Adam, todays freeware is tomorrows payware, without freeware there would be NO commercial outfits, I just wish the commercials would remember this, instead of the pig ignorant, arrogant attitudes shown by most when it comes to........arghhh forget it, I know a little more than most in this subject, so it's best not to harp on.On a final note, what Mike Stone says is perfectly true, I stand by his every word, he's one guy who has made my FS experiences a joy......just watch his planes in AI....superb !Calm down Adam, take a trip to Glastonbury,go Dutch, take a Grolsch or two, chill a little, it's not good for your blood pressure. George

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Can I just ask what the big deal is with everyone and payware? Personally, I have yet to see a panel that rivals the complexity of the Dreamfleet Archer, the functionality of the DF 734 or FSD's Cheyenne. Personally, seeing as I spend more time at the panel of the aircraft than on the outside staring at the model, the panel is the most important part. In very few packages from freeware developers (the standout example being the Debonair), the panel is simple, non-functional, and doesn't serve much of a purpose. So why is there some form of taboo around supporting people who have worked their butts off to make a product that furthers our hobby. I mean, if you are a GA fan and you have never flown FSD's Cheyenne or the DF Archer, you're really missing out on a whole new dimenion of simming that can be achieved with a small amount of money.Scott

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I would like to see Adams response to these posts.Freeware is definitely not dead. Many good quality payware products on my PC for very reasonable prices.Eric


Eric Thornton

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Personally, I support freeware, but if someone wants to sell their hard work, I think thats ok. Some people buy it & some don't. I have no payware on my PC simply because I don't really want to spend $40 US on something I might not even use that often. Developers like POSKY and project AI make products that people would pay good money for, but they keep them free, and I really respect them for that. :)

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Guest joea

Did ANYONE notice that "Adam-Stanger" has only 1 post to his credit. I'm willing to bet he or she or it will never answer. We have had thses type of posts for a long time and will continue so who cares.:~PAnyway, while I am careful what I spend my money on, I always choose my addons on the basis of quality and personal interest. I think we've got nothing to worry about, I am amazed at what we've got already compared to fs2000.

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Guest Scott Campbell

Can't forget Camil Valiquette's stunning aircraft, and my and other's air files and panels.It's also not just that everyone's going commercial. A lot of people, like Ron Freimuth and Steve Small (at least freeware), have virtually given up because of piracy and flame posts.You'd be surprised at how fast good people quit because they get ripped off or slammed by people who have no idea what they're talking about. I applaud AVSIM for stopping this kind of thing. Maybe these air file guru's will return.Here's my philosophy: It's free, if I don't like it I trash it and get something else. I do on occasion write to authors and ASK, not DEMAND, if they can make changes. It's always nice, and it's always detailed what I wish to be changed, not global "This stinks, it's nothing like the real thing I've never seen".Mostly, I thank them.What does it cost you to DL something and toss it if you don't like it? Nothing. What does it cost if you flame the person? Everything. It costs respect for you, and future work by that person.Even the flames to POSKY and FFG and IADG - ALL freeware - have caused their forums to be closed and all but one to disappear.So it's not all commercial. In a lot of cases it's futility and frustration. They put all that time and effort and money in for people flaming them.Think about that.

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I don't blame him for not responding. Not when he posts a legitimate issue and all he gets for his effort is a bunch of trashing and name calling. He has just as much right to express his opinion on these boards as any of the rest of you. And if you choose to be rude and inpolite and call him names in your responses, he can let you all know what he thinks of you through his silence. I'd probably do the same. No, I wouldn't be silent. I'd tell you all what I thought of your responses.The only thing I've paid for other than the original entire simulation at $50 bucks; was Jan Viser's DC3 Donationware contribution to the Maam Musuem. Well worth the $5 bucks that it cost and given for a good cause. That's about what I figure any good freeware product is worth unless you're getting a dozen or so aircraft as in the Abacus Products. Anybody that wants to pay for other stuff that only includes a single aircraft can do so. Anybody that thinks the prices are too high doesn't have to buy. They also have the same right as anyone else to complain about the prices or whatever. So lighten up.

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I am sure that Adam appreciates your understanding. Since you guys are on the same wave lenght perhaps you could become pen pals?Adam used to post on Fs.com and people who are familiar with his posts, tend to ignore him. He just tries to incite people. He definetely fits a profile of a "TROLL". http://members.cox.net/pstepanoff/images/OK_c2.gifPete S

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