Failure or bad user?

[Guest johodg]

Hi PMDG!I've tried a long time now to get to a comfortable level of understunding of this great and very complex aircraft.Howhever there are things that are very hard to understand especially when they not working in a logic way(for me:-)).Example of problems:1. What is the minimum settings needed to get the FD needles to work with ILS? Logically in my point of a view you should just need to have the radio set and the app button pushed (and of course also the FD-button). Otherwise this must be a very dangerus thing in real life because if you look at the other display (not in map-mode but in ILS-mode) it function perfectly. So how do now wich "gauge" to trust? Obviously not the FD needles but this pinpionts my frustration, not beeing able to trust what I see makes this product so much more complicated to master. "My" FD needles seems to work only for heading bug and sometimes for LNAV. 2. When pushing the buttons om the mcp especially vnav/lnav and app they are not always turned on. I realize especially for vnav that I myself is the resaon but in a situation where you believe that everting is set and you get now messeges how are you supposed to now if its normal or a bug in in tha application? When I read the tutorials and manuals I get the impression of that you can always engage the buttons but the function will reflect the settings that I

[Mats_J 2]

>Hi PMDG!Hi Johannes!>1. What is the minimum settings needed to get the FD needles>to work with ILS? Logically in my point of a view you should>just need to have the radio set and the app button pushed (and>of course also the FD-button). Otherwise this must be a very>dangerus thing in real life because if you look at the other>display (not in map-mode but in ILS-mode) it function>perfectly. So how do now wich "gauge" to trust? Obviously not>the FD needles but this pinpionts my frustration, not beeing>able to trust what I see makes this product so much more>complicated to master. "My" FD needles seems to work only for>heading bug and sometimes for LNAV. Key issue here is to make sure you have the appropriate pitch and roll modes engagedas well as having the nav radio/s tuned correctly. Having APP lit on the MCP does not mean that the aircraft are following the ILS. It only means that you have selected the APP mode for ARMING within the AFS (automatic flight system). What you should look for when interpreting what modes are active is the FMA (Flight Mode Annunciator, located along the top of the PFD). Once you have captured the ILS the FMA should show MCP SPD|LOC|G/S and the F/D will follow. What you see on the ND ILS screen is the deviation bars for the localizer and the glide slope and this is not the same thing as the F/D bars. You also have the deviation bars on the PFD while within ILS range.>2. When pushing the buttons om the mcp especially vnav/lnav>and app they are not always turned on. I realize especially>for vnav that I myself is the resaon but in a situation where>you believe that everting is set and you get now messeges how>are you supposed to now if its normal or a bug in in tha>application? When I read the tutorials and manuals I get the>impression of that you can always engage the buttons but the>function will reflect the settings that I

[Guest HJOrtmann]

Mats,>Usually you don't know which departure procedure to use until>you are cleared by clearance. In real life you don't file the>SID or STAR with your flight plan. Probably I'm wrong, but I expected at least the STAR to be filed : in case of lost communication ATC has to know, which STAR you've planned (for lost comm procedures) - how is this handled otherwise ?

[Guest Josve]

Welcome back Johannes!!Haven't seen you around for ages!Johnny"I'LL BE BACK"[div align=center]http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/josve/zone.jpg ][/div

[Mats_J 2]

Hans J

[Guest johodg]

Hello Johnny!Well I been here all the time, just in silent mode. :-)Sometimes I visit your Fly!zone just to remember "the good old days". It was fun to develop aircrafts when there were so few addons for Fly!. Actually I still recieve mail now and then especially from users of the Twin Otter.Now I use my limited FS-time just for flying and trying to get things as realistic as possible.regardsJohannes

[Guest Josve]

I still try to keep my site updated,but it's not so easy since I now have "converted" to Fs and PMDG aircraft.I very seldom use Fly2 theese days.But I'm still lurking the fly forums :)Johnny"I'LL BE BACK"[div align=center]http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/josve/pmdg.jpg ][/div

[Guest johodg]

Thanks Mats!1. I was refering to hand flying and actually any way to get the FD needles to get usefull in this mode. So what is needed? Is it enough that the radio is tuned in and aircraft is on glide slope before pressing app or do I need more preparation in order to get the FD needles to funkction? In that case what buttons and what modes? I really tried alot carefylly programming the FMC and so on but no luck. Do you have to do something else in certain order first like using heading bug or similar?2. Ok, how do you suppose to now what modes that can be combined or should be combined do get to desired result just from reading the manual? I think what I missing is something between the manual and the tutorials, a guide for each desired mode and exactly what to press to get there and nothing more.3. What I meant was that everything was black even the digits in both alt and vs.4. Short flight 50 min! all in all you end up with 130min just for one flight and the "only" fun is start up--cruise and descend--parking at gates. When you have kids and a lot of other thing to do it can be a real god feature to just fastforward the cruise. :-) When it comes to realism I get the impression that in real simulators you do everything to save time. OK you might not be able to fast forward but at leat you can set up the aircraft fully operational and just shoot ILS for practise. 5. OK! I actually thought we were told to have the NG saved in cold and dark configuration for start up.7. What I was looking for was a operational recomendation. What is best and how to handle the information when it shows up in the FMC.8. I will continue my learning process I just wanted to make sure that I'm not fighting against any bugs in the product.Regards Johannes

[Guest HJOrtmann]

Mats,afaik in case of lost comm you have to do something like the following:a) you squawk 7600 (in RL, *not* in the VATSIM world! There you're not allowed to do so :( ):( you continue your flight along the filed(!) STARc) at the end of the STAR you enter the holding patternd) you'll exit the holding after 7(?) minutese) you descend to the final approach altitudef) and do what you have to do according to the approach chartsTo let ATC know, what you would do (and where you would fly) in such case, it seems, that in the filed flightplan the STAR has to be included - but perhaps some real experts may jump in here ;)[edit: to avoid misunderstandings: of course you're right: the actual STAR - if any - will be assigned during the flight - just in case of comm failure before an ATC clearence you have to file the STAR) ]

[ErnieAlston 33]

>>7. When you build flightplans with fsbuild 2.1 should you or>>should you not include the SID/STAR into the flightplan?>>Usually you don't know which departure procedure to use until>you are cleared by clearance. In real life you don't file the>SID or STAR with your flight plan. Also you will never know>(but you can make a qualified guess) which arrival procedure>you will get until getting close to your destination. Usually>STARs are entered during flight.Depends on the part of the world.In the U.S. it is quite normal for the Airlines to file Flight Plans which include the SID/STAR, and many of the preferred IFR routes include the SID/STAR in the U.S.Regards.Ernie.

[gosta 0]

Hi Johannes,>1. I was refering to hand flying and actually any way to get the FD needles to get usefull in this mode. So what is needed? Is it enough that the radio is tuned in and aircraft is on glide slope before pressing app or do I need more preparation in order to get the FD needles to funkction? In that case what buttons and what modes? I really tried alot carefylly programming the FMC and so on but no luck. Do you have to do something else in certain order first like using heading bug or similar?http://www.hifisim.com/images/as2betateam.jpg

[Mats_J 2]

Hi Ernie>Depends on the part of the world.I'm sure it does. ;-) What I was talking about was Europe. I think we have more runway dependant procedures than in the US?>In the U.S. it is quite normal for the Airlines to file Flight>Plans which include the SID/STAR, and many of the preferred>IFR routes include the SID/STAR in the U.S.Again is this due to the fact that many procedures in US involves initial/final vectors and isn't runway dependant? If not how do the US airlines cope with changes in active runways and with multiple runways if the preferred IFR routes includes the SID/STARs?Cheers,

[SAS263 1]

Just to give an example of a different procedure. This is from http://aip.lfv.se/4AIP-AD/AD2/S/ES_AD_2_ESSA_en.pdf i.e. a real world document:"1.3.2 Destination Stockholm/Arlanda1.3.2.1 Maintain the altitude last received and acknowledged. Proceed via the relevant TMA entry point. Proceed then direct to TEB VOR. In the TEB holding descend to 2500 ft MSL. Carry out a normal instrument approach to the most suitable runway, which normally is the runway received via ATIS or by inbound clearance. In other cases it is up to the pilot in command."Since there seem to be a lot of different procedures (this was just one airport), are these published with for instance Jeppeson charts or do the pilot need to find and carry along these procedures for all the airports that may be used incl. diversions...? Lotsa paper ;)BTW, the quote above is in addition to http://aip.lfv.se/3AIP-ENR/ENR1/ES_ENR_1_3_en.pdf where the general rules for Sweden can be found. The procedures for communication failure are in section 1.3.9.Happy reading! :)Edited for spelling.