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Guest woottsbj25

737-600/700 drop on throttle-back

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Well I seemed to have offended Sean and this was not my intention. I made a quick remark without keeping it to this aircraft, oh well not the frist time. I have changed my name tag to reflect my flying status (to which I am not ashamed of) many good folks do not fly but love avaition just the same. I will say that there are a number of pilots on the beta team to cover areas such as these and I put trust in their judgements in regard to this flight model. Yes I am a bit biased but it's a fantastic aeroplane sim. But even so, I know one would not be at ref+5 and full flaps with no power and glide in like a cessna would, well unless you are SWA and are having a very bad day ;-(. As a sim pilot I would venture to assume your speed would bleed off rather quickly in this config and your AOA would increase drastically while trying to maintain ref which raises other serious problems, but I am no expert. In fact I think this type of testing can only be done in a *sim* to tell us how the real one would handle it.[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. SmithCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

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Guest boxjockey99

Well this seems like a highly charged little subject so I'll see if my REAL life experience can help.On the 300 (I don't fly the NG) our landing technique at flap 30 is to retard the power levers at around 30ft RA. This is just right to give the proper amount of energy allowing a nice flare and a smooth landing.Flap 40 on the other hand is very different. Having just pulled off my first 'thumper' landing back into leeds at flap 40 we (the capt and I) discussed why it occurred. I had followed the SOP's and retarded at 30ft and then pulled gently to flare. At flap 40 however you are marginally behind the drag curve, this means that removing the residual thrust combined with raising the nose effectively stalls the aircraft and you do 'drop like a rock' A subsequent sector with the same captain landing with flap 40 was much better, I left the retard a little later and brought the power levers back much slower and this seemed to work nicely. IT is fair to say that closing the thrust levers at 200ft will certainly result in a pretty large dent in the runway, you must bear in mind the 50ton weight will decellerate rather quickly and is already quite close to the stall when at Vref+5. Hope that clears things up and I hope no damage has been done between the two arguing parites above.CheersKris

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Guest vas_yan

Sean, are you the same cactuscap who used to post at the Dreamfleet forum? }(

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Guest mcbootus

Hi guys,Most informative Kris, thanks for the excellent info. I havent flown a real 737 yet but I can tell you for sure that the 800/900 has the most realistic landing performance I have ever seen on any aircraft in a sim. I regularly replay the last 120 seconds of the landing just to admire the behaviour, and with the added wing spot views, it really feels like the real thing... top marks!One very small tip Randy, I have been looking at your replies recently and it does appear that sometimes you do jump onto people's questions a bit harshly... some people including myself dont know everything, and sometimes we ask very silly questions! Many thanks in advance.Looking forward to fly in a Ryanair 737-800 next week....... as a passenger !mcbootus

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Well I can be a bit agressive but really do not mean to be (Bad habit that needs a good kick). Sean is correct that I should be more open and not so judemental sounding. It's been a long road to come where I am now and I still have room to learn but am open to change for the better. I am sorry for any offence that I have caused any of you. [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. SmithCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

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mcbootus,You're not the first one noticing Randy's replies which are not always given in a very nice manner. Personally I have made my comments on this before but usually don't bother anymore since no one else seems to care that much about it which I personally think is a bit strange.And no offense intended Randy, just like many others I DO appreciate the great knowledge you so often share with the rest of us regarding this sim but like mcbootus says not everyone are experts but still deserve to be treated in a respectful and nice way even when asking a "stupid" question and I find it far more fun to participate in this kind of forum if you can do that in a friendly manner and leave out any unneccesary and harsh comments.All the best and wishing you all fellow PMDG captains a nice weekend!


Richard Åsberg

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"the aircraft just plummets like a stone."I just have a two questions.... What shape was the stone and what was it doing at the time? It may have been flat and round.... going very fast, spinning and travelling across a flat surface of water ;-) Cheers.Ian.

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Hi Tom!It really depends on your approach. You can pull off a no engine landing with a very soft landing from 5000 ft... BUT if you are on glideslope, on speed and at above 60 ft AGL, I know that the following aircraft will have to spend at least a few months in the hangar: B737, B747. B757 and B767 (the types I have experience with)The question is, what do you do at 200 ft? Do you "duck" to maintain speed and then flare (if you were on the glideslope you'll be hearing some loud alarms) then you can make. You'll just not land in the touchdown zone.Assuming normal landing procedures, you can't kill the thrust at 200 ft AGL. The 747 will be nicer to you than the other aircraft due to its high inertia and high ground effect, but 200 ft is still risky.The 737 is (relatively) a light aircraft, and even at flaps 30 will bleed speed quite fast at low thrust. If you cut the thrust at 200 ft at Vref +5, you'll be stalling a couple of seconds later and if you keep on pulling you'll be sinking with 1300 fpm or more.So, at least in this respect, the PMDG aircraft is realistic.Regards,Mark


Mark Foti

Author of aviaworx - https://www.aviaworx.com

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Guest cactuscap

Vassilis,>>Sean, are you the same cactuscap who used to post at the Dreamfleet forum?<

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Guest cactuscap

John,>> First off, you can't compare the gliding characteristics of an airliner in clean configuration at altitude to those of one at flaps 30 and vref+5.<

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Sean,I believe we're getting into symantics here and have to read between the lines of what Tom said. Otherwise we'll be here forever debating over this. Why else would you throttle back at 200' if you weren't in landing configuration?Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpg

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Guest vas_yan

Sean,I am only involved in a lowly scenery project which hasn't gone public at all so I am probably not the Vassilis you had in mind... I only asked to ascertain which side is right on the present debate ;-) Kind regards,

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Guest sj3

"...pull off a no engine landing with a very soft landing from 5000 ft..."Don't know if Tim's listening, but, if so, can we try this in the next tutorial? Maybe at night?Thanks!

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You know Richard there are many guys like you, and really I cannot blame complainers for how I react, but after years of dealing with guys who make negative remarks and comments then cry foul if anyone responds in like manner is a burden too hard to carry. See I do not say what I would like to say to most guys who come here and talk trash, and believe me there have been many so I say what I can without cursing them (boy I want to though)!. I have never been here to make anyone feel good, if you ask a stupid question you might just get a stupid reply! Hey just like real life. But see it's not that some nice guy asks a ignorant question that sirs the bee's nest, it's the ignorant question with a twist of sarcasim that start posts that go down the wrong road. Truthfully though I have my computer, aircraft, girlfriend and schooling to worry about than sitting here discussing how I ACT. The truth is I do not care what you think because1] I do not get paid to put up with BS2] I see a log in many a EYE3] I got better things to do like kick arse on America's Army. So for now I say bye bye to you guys, have fun and don't forget to set your flaps for takeoff ;-) As Johnny use to say "I'll be back" hopefully not too soon..[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. SmithCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

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I had the opportunity to do this around 4 times (twice B737, twice B767) in the level D sim.Unfortunately, there aren't ANY real checklists for this. You're left with your gut instinct to pull it off.I recall someone (a captain) created a procedure for this scenario, but I am not sure where to find this info. Also, it will be very type specific.In my scenario, I started out at Fl100 right on top of the airport. The trick was how long to fly out, when to turn and how to manage gear/flaps do get it onto the runway. Unforunately, I relied mostly on "gut feeling" while doing


Mark Foti

Author of aviaworx - https://www.aviaworx.com

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