Unable to climb to altitude in 10 mins

[Guest ryebred]

After the latest update I noticed that I have been unable to climb to altitude as fast as I once did. ATC says to climb to FL in 10 minutes after departure but I can't seem to do that anymore. I ran several tests in various wind conditions to make sure but in all of them, around 26,000 ft, the climb rate drops to about 600-800 FPM. I tried playing with the target climb speeds. By default it is set to 315 kts. I set it lower but it still proceeded to climb slowly. Is there something that changed in the patch that would cause this? Is there some other setting besides target climb speed I can set in the FMS to achieve a better climb? Maybe the rate I am climbing is accurate but then how would one climb to FL in 10 minutes? Thanks for the help.Ryan

[crvm 0]

I can say with 100% certainty that the performance matches the RW performance manuals so it's not that ;-) I don't believe default ATC ever asks us to climb to any altitude within a time frame. If you are in a hurry to climb bring up the CLIMB page on the FMC and choose MAX ANGLE, that will get you up in a jiffy. Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4][h3]P M D G's 747-400[/h3][h4]coming to a runway near you[/h4][/font color]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

[marcom 139]

Ryan, are you maybe misunderstanding ATC when they say to "expect FL XXX 10 minutes after departure" ? This simply means that you can expect further climb clearance 10 mins after departure (in this scenario). This phraseology is (AFaIK) only used in the US.PS MAX ANGLE will get you to the highest altitude in the smallest travelled distance. MAX RATE would get you to the highest altitude in the least amout of time.Regards,Mark

[crvm 0]

Hey Mark, how's that nifty 767 sim coming along? Can't wait to see it in all it's glory ;-) As to MAX RATE and MAX ANGLE, If real ATC requests "BEST RATE", he most certainly means "BEST ANGLE" which equals MAX ANGLE for the NG and which a 737 pilot would use to avoid potentail conflict etc quickly and certainly quicker than MAX RATE. But for our discussion MAX RATE would be a better choice since we are not trying to avoid anything... Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4][h3]P M D G's 747-400[/h3][h4]coming to a runway near you[/h4][/font color]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

[Guest rcritz]

> If real ATC requests "BEST RATE", he most certainly means>"BEST ANGLE" which equals MAX ANGLE for the NG and which a 737>pilot would use to avoid potentail conflict etc quickly>and certainly quicker than MAX RATE. Sorry, neither of those is a true statement. If ATC asks for best rate, then that's exactly what they mean. Climb at the maximum RATE of climb you can given the conditions. They're looking at things in terms of time rather than distance travelled. Climbing at MAX ANGLE will actually get you to the desired altitude in more time than the MAX RATE climb.MAX ANGLE is essentially only used for obstacle clearance on a departure or missed approach. The rest of the time, MAX RATE or higher airspeed is what you fly.cz

[marcom 139]

Hi Randy,regarding best angle / best rate:I think if ATC had the option between the two, they might actually go for best angle. But as ATC (at least over here) uses time to calculate conflict situations, they want best rate.This actually does cause confusion with pilots, as on some a/c you don't have a direct (FMC) figure for best rate, only for best angle (B767 as an example).regarding the sim:it's comming along nicely, but we are in no hurry :-)It will be a long (read L O N G) time before we are finished.Regards,Mark

[Guest Nickman]

Are you even using VNAM Ryan. Without VNAV, it can seem like it takes forever to climb using just the V/S Speed. Try using LVL Change if you have trouble climbing.Nick B.Continental Airlines Virtual 737NG Pilothttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/800driver.jpg--AMD Athlon XP 3200+ @ 2.2 Ghz (Equal to 2.8 ghz)400W Power supply3x 80 mm Case FansSoyo VIA KT600 Dragon PlusnVidia GeForce FX 5200 128 mb2 x 512 PC400100 GB Western DigitalMicrosoft Sidewinder Precision 2

[Guest jacaru]

I think best angle is climb as much as you can in the shortest distance and best rate is climb as much as you can in the shortest time. And ATC should ask you exactly for what he wants, best angle or best rate.Jaime.

[crvm 0]

That might fly for VATSIM's ATC sir but if you have the chance open up Mr Bill Bulfer's 737 NG FMC Guide on page 91 where in fact this is exactly what he states. Plus you did not read my post correctly, on a NG MAX ANGLE = BEST RATE simply because it will get you UP QUICKER than selection of MAX RATE. How other aircraft operate is not in question and is indeed correct ;-) Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4][h3]P M D G's 747-400[/h3][h4]coming to a runway near you[/h4][/font color]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

[Guest NBL648]

Ryan, Do you use any add-on weather programs like AS2004? If so, get the latest public betta for it at their forum. What may be happening is the TAT is far too warm for the altitude.....hence the lower climb rate. This was a major problem in their betas prior to the latest.Good luck,Paul

[Tabs 2,790]

> Plus you did not read my post correctly, on a NG MAX ANGLE =>BEST RATE simply because it will get you UP QUICKER than>selection of MAX RATE. You sure about that? Doesn't really seem to make sense to me... MAX ANGLE is going to adjust pitch and thus airspeed for the most altitude gain per unit distance across the ground correct? MAX RATE is going to adjust pitch/speed for the maximum attainable feet per minute in the climb correct? How then, can the MAX ANGLE actually be faster than MAX RATE? What is the point of even having MAX RATE if that were true?I don't have the Bulfer guide with me, but something seems really odd about this if that is indeed what he's implying...

[crvm 0]

Yes I am sure that is indeed correct. MAX ANGLE gives you the fastest-quicker-faster than MAX RATE for altitude gain. What does not make sense? MAX RATE CLIMB This airspeed produces the maximum gain in altitude per unit of time.(Minimum time to altitude)MAX ANGLE CLIMB This airspeed produces the maximum gain in altitude for horizontal distance traveled.(Minimum ground distance to altitude) Looks pretty sure to me Ryan..http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/87365.jpgBest Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4][h3]P M D G's 747-400[/h3][h4]coming to a runway near you[/h4][/font color]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

[Guest ryebred]

Hey all, thanks for the responses. Mark, you are right. I was mistaking expect FL330 10 minutes after departure to mean that they wanted me to be up at FL330 10 minutes after departure. The max rate and max climb make sense so I will try that and see what happens.I do use AS2004 Paul though I have used it for a while and this problem with slow climb has only started to occur in my last ten flights or so. Only things I can think of that I changed was I downloaded the latest PMDG update and I clicked on "Use Defaults" in FSUIPC like several people recomended for AS2004. It is possible that by doing that I somehow messed up the weather settings which may result in a low climb rate.Nick, I am using VNAV all the way up. I usually use FSNavigator which predicts TOC and I always used to reach TOC before the FSNav prediction but the last ten flights or so I have been well past the predicted TOC. I will try some of your suggestions and see if that works. Thanks for the help.Ryan

[Guest ryebred]

Perhaps an image works best. DOes this look normal to you guys? 900FPM climb at 26,000ft? In this image I was only climbing to 28,000 ft but if I am climbing to FL330 then at around 28,000ft the rate drops down to 500-600FPM. The climb settings are left at the FMC defaults.

[SAS263 1]

Just a shot in the dark here, but what kind of outside air temp are you seeing? I have a faint memory about talk of too hot temps at high altitudes, not sure if it was caused by an earlier verison of AS2004, Vatsim wx, FSUIPC or whatever. Anyway, if the temps are unnaturally high the engines aren