BBJ

[John_Tavendale 453]

Well a full motion sim costs hundreds of dollars per hour, this costs less than one hour. :-rollThis isn't supposed to be a full motion sim, its a $70 game. Remember that. Don't know what you expect from a entertainment sofware title!One Captain of an Airline has said that its the best civilain training aid around. Can't argue with that, though I am sure you'd try. :-roll

[Guest yylie1]

Hey John, Thanks for the reply again. Actually the question is a yes or no one. I was wondering all along and so are my other PMDG friends here in Melbourne whether or not there will be a patch to correct for the missing PLIs in the PFD for the PMDG B737NGs or the funny gear position when in VC?Cheers,Melissa

[Guest Knikolaes]

Unsafe?Okay -- I have to add this . . . . . . . and I apologize if I offend anyone,But look at common basics of common sense . . . Do Cessnas have PLI's? No. Do ALL aircraft have PLI's? No. Does that mean THEY do NOT have an angle of attack? Certainly NOT!What this sums up to is PLIs are probably MORE dangerous WITH than WITHOUT! A GOOD pilot has the "feel" of his/her plane. The Captain, NOT the instrument panel, is the FINAL and SENIOR deciding factor of how safe that plane can climb. I have NEVER reached my PLI, never even tried. Actually never even knew what the heck it was FOR until this thread came along. But I have never stalled nor have I ever wrecked a plane in real life or in the sim (yes I fly in real life too) because of this PLI thing. In real life I am merely a GA pilot, so that is why I was unaware of this PLI and it's purpose. I have stalled -- but not because of a PLI or lack thereof.But one does not need a PLI for an aircraft to be safe. One needs common sense and the knowledge of that plane.If you base all of your flying and T/O and ascent angles on the PLI -- then if you are a real airline pilot remind me to NEVER go flying with you. Trying to give your passengers G-Force roller coaster sickness?FYI -- in lieu of this thread I sent an email to two seperate pilkot friends of mine. One is a 767 pilot that does regular routes overseas. The other works for Southwest and he has thousands of hours in the air. Both told me that in their entire careers they have never even come close to touching the PLI on a takeoff. They pay attention to the important stuff -- like the airspeed, altitude, VSI, etc. -- the stuff that IS crucial to keeping that plane in the air.Both responded to me that if you are paying too much attention to just that PLI you are flying very dangerously, and that it is there as a convenience only. If a pilot glances and notices he is close to the PLI he scans the other instru,ments to make sure he is within bounds, but again that reverts back to the instrument scan . . . Altitude, airspeed and VSI.I am not trying to put anyone down -- so dont get the wrong idea, but i AM saying if this "PLI" is so important to you and is the basis for your takeoff, etc, then you are indeed flying very dangerously, and my two comrades backed me up on this.Just a quick question . . . . on your "test flights" you did out of Innsbruck -- did not having the PLI cause you to crash?One has to remember -- this is flight simulation -- this is NOT a million dollar level-D full-motion flight simulator meant to certify us to fly the real thing, and we are certainly not paying anywhere from $150.00 to $450.00 (sometimes more) per hour to fly in this thing. For what we DO get in this addon, the money is well worth it, and a great investment.If you are buying an addon just for something like a PLI -- perhaps you need to consider looking for freeware aircraft on AVSIM instead, and that way if you are not so satisfied with the lack of detail you just "delete" the aircraft from existance without your wallet being thinned.In something like MSFS not every detail will be there for every single soul. Take me for instance -- I could do without the recirculation fan driving my ears whacko for a long flight. Do I bash PMDG for this? heck no (it's realism). Do I cheat a little bit and flip the off switch -- okay I admit it I do. Am I psychologicly damaged because I just altered my realism standpoint? No. Will I buy the next PMDG product that comes out? Yes.<> To correct spelling.

[Guest yylie1]

Yeah? And the answer whether or not there is any patch to add this into the PMDG B737NGs for us IS?Thanks for that whole long explaination Christopher but I was hoping that someone in the PMDG development team could answer this. No without the PLIS wont crash the plane. BUT........For realism it should be there in the PMDG B737NGs. I have never seen a real life BOEING "glass" cockpit that doesnt have this. Even the fly by wire B777s have this on them. It is just a guide and not something to follow. Christopher do yourself a favour and sit in the read flight deck of a BOEING jet liner and you will see this there. Or fly a FULL MOTION BOEING simulator of a glass cockpit aircraft like the B747-400, B737-400s, B767, etc and you will definitely see this there. I have noticed that all the other developers of BOEING planes out there also don`t have these PLIS. Even the equally popular B767PIC that was developed by Eric Ernst. So why be just a normal product? Go one step above that.BTW what plane do you fly in real life Chris?Regards,Melissa

[John_Tavendale 453]

No idea Melissa. PMDG may or may not add/update it at later stage, purely up to them.

[ahuimanu 50]

Melissa,The people at PMDG aren't a factory or a Chinese sweatshop. I have a modicum of appreciation for the development process for flightsim addons and it is arcane at best. Testing is a laborious nightmare and most technical advances are kluges and akin to black magic or sorcery.I can't speak for the development team and I suspect they are wise people to not appear here and joust with the rabble. I have no place to admonish you here, but I would suggest that badgering what amounts to a small group of artisans won't produce the work you desire any faster. Perhaps you could volunteer your services as a PR reprentative to PMDG?James Brown

[Guest Knikolaes]

In real life I fly out of Pueblo in a Cessna 172. I was learning in a Cessna 150F, but Flower Aviation sold her because they wanted to stick to just the 172 for their student pilots.I havent been in the cockpit of a real 737, but been in quite a few regional jetliners before 9/11. I did notice the little bugger in the screen, but really I found such fascination with just the fact that the aircraft was in the air and how cool everything looked. At THAT time I was just an enthusiest and drolled over anything that flew.Heck -- I have to admit it -- I still do!!! As soon as I can get into a country outside the US to take schooling with a Visa (I cant take school here in the U.S. due to my own stupidity -- I was irresponsible in my past and now have such bad credit no school loan will ever touch me) I plan to get my ATP.I will agree realism IS important in many factors, but I actually wont complain too badly about certian things in certain addons. I have them in my flight simulator purely for my basic practice to make sure I hone my skills -- AND my stress level. I am one of these souls that if I dont get my aviation fix at least once a day -- be it real life flying or flight simulator -- I go nuts. Flying is an addiction to me.But I do see flight simulator for what it is -- and will never hold PMDG liable for something I want or dont want that might include a detail.As for those airstairs . . . I will look that up and reply to this post . . . . . . I forget the command because i have been using nothing but gates at the airports I have been flying to.As for the PLI -- it's just not something many people look for in an addon I dont think -- most buyers look for flight dynamics, and overall functionality of the cockpit, which PMDG did nail so well that I am engulfed in her for hours upon hours of enjoyment. And JUST when I was starting to think I had explored everything, a freeware flight simmer released that BBJ "mod" for the PMDG aircraft, and it blew me away. I immediately noticed the different flight dynamics and detail in the models and have since been engrossed in flying her around as well.I guess as a student though, I am actually glad I dont always see this PLI in all of my AC, because no matter what I am flying -- my PSS airbuses, PMDG Boeings, PMDG B1900D's, Eaglesoft biz-jets, etc . . . . right down to my good ol' Cessna Cardinal (I fly this beauty to get my GA practice in with what my instructor goes over with me every week) -- I keep to my good habits of "scan scan scan".I honestly do not think PMDG even has any more updates planned for the 737. PMDG correct me if I am wrong on this? Suits me fine because to me the AC works great on my system. And my system is not the greates (I home built it based on budget and am now trying to tinker with the thought of the Go-Flight system).I guess what I am trying to say is the PLI is not really a reason to stress or get upset. As for the airstairs, I'll look and see, or perhaps another reader of this thread will beat me to this and post the shortcut here. It'll be this afternoon before I go back into the simulator again as I just got home from graveyard working and am going to slumberland.

[michal 44]

>Yeah? And the answer whether or not there is any patch to add>this into the PMDG B737NGs for us IS?If you cared to read some official PMDG statements - developement/fxing of the 737NG came to an end long time ago. Accept it as a fact whether you like it or not. Of course one day 737NG may be resurected as a separate product.PLI - must stand for "Pitch Limit Indicators". I can bet my house you will see them in the upcoming Queen.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg