PDMG737: Autopilot questions...

[Guest Cantuezel]

Hi,I just started flying the PDMG737-700 (before: Dreamfleet 737). Now I`ve some heavy problems with the *autopilot* of the PDMG737:My goal ist to fly the plane in autopilot-mode but *without* using the Flight Managment System (FMS). Well, I am taking-off manually and at 1000ft AGL I switch on the HDG-selector -> Nothing happens, the plane does not fly towards the desired heading. 1) Then I switch on the CMD-A AP-Button and then "it" happens:The PMDG suddenly climbs from on second to another with +5000ft/min or more!!! Of course that leads to a deadly stall...The only solution is to switch off the CMD-A AP Button -> Then the bird stops that strange behavour but I also did not reach my goal to use the AP!2) Then I tried to use MCP-Speed: I entered 230 IAS in the selector while "A/T armed" but when I activated the CMD-A AP button the plane once again did *not(!)* fly the pre-selected Speed...So my questions: What am I doing wrong here? What do I have to do in order to use the AP without using the FMC?Many thanks in advance! :)Susan

[Guest neeraj.pendse]

Hi Susan,There is no easy way to explain this, but I will try. One of the things you have to note about the 737-NG is that the autopilot is VERY different from the default 737-400. The Mode Control Panel (which sits on top of the glareshield and is what I think you are refeering to as the autopilot) does not give one ALL the information about what the autopilot is doing.You have to look at the PFD and if you are in any of the FMC-managed modes (like VNAV PATH or FMC SPEED) then you also have to look at the appropriate page in the FMC.When you take off in a 737-NG, if you are using autothrottles, then you are in N1 mode until reaching 1500 AGL (or a pre-programmed alt), where the autopilot wants to maintain V2+10. Maybe what is happening is when you turn the AP on, it thinks "wo, I am in takeoff mode, so slow down to V2+10" and while it is doing that from whatever speed you are currently at, it produces a large rate of climb in order to slow down.Here's what I would suggest you do:[1] Even if you do not want to use the FMC, make sure you check the departure page and select flap setting and V-SPEED for the current weight. This will tell you V1, V2, VR for current conditions.[2] Before takeoff, dial-in the HDG and ALT you want. Dial in V2 in the speed box on MCP.[3] After takeoff, try to maintain V2+10, this will need an approx 17 degree pitch angle. You can turn on the AP at this time and it will maintiain V2 + 10, until you start retracting flaps. You should see FMC SPD | HDG | ALT on the PFD. ALT will be white since it is not active.[4] Once you have retracted the flaps, the AP will start accelerating to 250 KIAS, and you can change this. PFD will now show MCP SPEED, and you can also dial in a VSPEED (it will default to the current rate of climb if you do not dial in) and the PFD should say "MCP VSPEED" or something like that ...The idea in the initial climb is to FLY A SPEED, and accept the rate of climb you get, it is very different from the crude MS autopilots we are used to.Also, always look at the top line of the PFD to find out which modes for power, roll and pitch you are in. The MCP itself does not give all the information. For example, the ALT light on the MCP may be off but PFD may show "MCP ALT" which means it AP is still in ALT HOLD mode.Let me know how that works!- Neeraj

[kmanning 12]

Hi Susan,You are correct. You can fly the 737NG without the FMC. Here's what you need to do. Of course, different airline companies have different procedures. Be sure you go over the checklist so that nothing is overlooked, such as the Before Take-Off and Take-Off. Before departure, enter the runway heading into the heading select of the MCP. When you hit the heading select button and the Command A ,after take-off, the aircraft will maintain that present heading. Enter the V2 speed into the speed area of the MCP. When cleared for take-Off, be sure the flight director is on and armed the auto-throttles. You also need to know your V1 and Vr speeds. V1 is the speed at which you are commited to take-off. Vr is the speed at which you pull back on the control wheel and raise the nose to about 8 degrees. Advance the throttles to 40% N1 and monitor the engines and EGT. When everyghint looks good and N1 reaches 40%, activate TO/GA by putting your mouse curser at the top left screw of the MCP. Rotate at Vr. When positive rate-of-climb is established, raise the landing gear and climb out at V2+20 knots. On the PFD, you'll notice a magenta line that moves and you follow this line with the flight director bar. This will give you a speed of V2+20 knots. If you enter 134 knots into the MCP, you should be around 154 knots when this line is followed, 134+20=154 knots. You can get the V1, Vr, and V2 speeds from the manual which came with your 737NG. When reaching 400ft, engage roll mode, which means in your case, you hit the heading select button. When reaching 1000ft, you engage the auto-pilot by pressing the Command A button. You mentioned that the airplane pitched up and climbed more than 5000 fpm. I assumed you've already have entered the altitude into the MCP as well. To prevent the airplane from climbing so steeply and losing airspeed, make sure you select speed on the MCP and enter a speed from 230 to 250 knots. If I remember correctly, when you engage the auto-pilot, the MCP will go from N1 to Speed mode. If not, just select it. Make sure you also retract the flaps on schedule as you accelerate. Hope this helps. If you need any more help, just post it.Ken.

[Guest Cantuezel]

Hi Neeraj,many, many thanks for your *detailed* help! :)First of all I have to say that your hints worked...thats the most important...So I did the thing with setting the FMC and then the Autopilot (AP) worked as he should do.Now I`ve some further questions concerning this issue and PMDG737 in general:1) Concerning your solution you gave me to solve my AP-problem: Am I right that it is realy *impossible(!)* to use AP-functions like HDG-Select, reaching Altitude via a predescribed rate of climb/descend, Holding a target-speed...*WITHOUT*(!) the parallel use of the FMC?Well, I can`t realy believe that because the the pilot flying the simulated B737 of Dreamfleet (not the default B737 of MS!)could use all that AP-functions WITHOUT the parallel use of the FMC.2) If that is realy the case with PMDG737: Do you know what is it like in the real B737 (AP-functions without parallel FMC-use)?3) I discovered that the AP together only works when the *Flight-Director* is OFF. Whenever I switched it to "on" the PMDG737 didn`t follow Speed, HDG & Alt I entered at the MCP from that time on. When I switched the Flight-Director "off" everything just worked perfectly.a) So, could you just explain why this behaves that strange way? :):( And what is the Flight-Director good for?4) Another PMDG topic: When I approached EDBT and switched on the ILS 07R (ISSE) freq. (110.70 MhZ) the localizer&glide slope was correctly displayed at the Primary Flight Display(PFD). But when I switched the mode from MAP-Mode to VOR-Mode (with the knop/selector left of the MCP) the corresponding display (I dont know the precise name for that display. I mean the display right of the PFD) there was only the display saying..."EFIS Mode/Nav Freq Disagree).I have the newest AIRAC from www.navdata.at, so I thought that the "old" (lol!) FS2004 could still have old frequencies for the ILS 07R at EDBT. But that also was not the case because I looked at the MS2K4 Map the freq. for that RWY and it was 110.70MhZ, too. Also, as I said before, the PFD showed the ILS Loc+Glide correctly all the time...So my question: What does the "EFIS Mode/Nav Freq Disagree" at VOR-mode in the display mean?5)Another topic: When flying the PMDG737 at night you can switch on different light-systems manually. Could you just give me the *keystroke* command for switching the *TAXIWAY* lights on/off (I dont like it to go to the overhead panal and switch that lights with mouse clicks...)? I only found the keystroke command "L" (=lights) or "Shift+L" or "Command+L"...but no one of them works for the *taxi* lights....6) To the QNH-settings for the altimeter: Where at the PMDG-Cockpit can adjust the correct QNH or standard-pressure? I only found the "easy" way by pressing "b" (Barro), but I think it has to be a possibilty for entering the pressure manually, isn`t it?7)I could not find any GPS or GPS-Mode at PMDG737 (600,700): Isn`t such a GPS (mode) simulated? I think the "real" one has one (or two?) or...? :)8)Finally back to the Flight Managment Computer from the beginning: I saw that the time displayed at the "Index->Pos" Page of the FMC isnt`t that one the FS2K4 has. For example the FS2K4 time is "11:18zulu" but the FMC says "1328zulu" on the POS-Page. I couldn`t set the correct GMT at the FMC...so my question:How do I adjust the correct GMT at the FMC, so that it calculates the correct ETAs,ATAs etc. Many, many thanks once again for your time you gave to answer my questions...Have a great day...Many greetings Susan

[Guest Cantuezel]

Hi Ken,many thanks for your answer...:)I solved the problem with the AP...But as I already wrote to Neray at the post above the only way I was sucessful was when I *parallel* programed and *used* the FMC.When I used the MCP settings (Speed, HDG, ALT etc.) and switched the CMD at 1000ft AGL to "on" the PMDG once again climbed with 5000ft or more...I`ve retraced gear, flaps+slats clean and the climb-rate at the MCP-Window is set to +1500ft...but the bird does not behave as it should...:) :)Any idea? Well if not, I`ve to program the FMC all the time in the future...One fact that AP only works together with FMC programmed before in *parallel* use could be, that all Tutorials I found for the PMDG737 (Timothy M. Metzinger etc.) used the FMC for the corresponding Tutorial flight...so what do you think?Many greetingsSusan

[Guest ColdBear]

Susan,To answer your questions 6 and 7:6) To set the QNH look to the left of the MCP, there should be 4 knobs: (left to right) DH, EFIS mode, Range and Baro. you need to use the Baro knob to set the altimeter. The current setting is displayed below the altitude indicator on the PFD; either STD(29.92) or the current pressure .7) GPS mode is not simulated in the PMDG737. The real 737NG has position uptade via GPS.(atleast the 744 does) there is NOT a GPS mode like the default microsoft aircraft has got.hope this help,Martin(If you want I will gladly answer the remaining question, if I can, it just got to late here in Denmark ;) )

[Mats_J 2]

Susan,Welcome to the forum. Always nice to see some female sim pilots here!I'll take a stab at your questions>1) Concerning your solution you gave me to solve my>AP-problem: Am I right that it is realy *impossible(!)* to use>AP-functions like HDG-Select, reaching Altitude via a>predescribed rate of climb/descend, Holding a>target-speed...*WITHOUT*(!) the parallel use of the FMC?Well. There are some mandatory fields to be entered into the FMC like weights and CG for the calculations of V-speeds and such. But it is very much possible to fly the NG without any use of the FMC at all.>Well, I can`t realy believe that because the the pilot flying>the simulated B737 of Dreamfleet (not the default B737 of>MS!)could use all that AP-functions WITHOUT the parallel use>of the FMC.Susan, the DreamFleet 737 is a -400 and as such not the same kind of animal as the NG. And there are some errors in the DF734 which I didn't discover until I started to study Bill Bulfers FMC Guide and his eminent 737 Cockpit Companion. www.fmcguide.com>2) If that is realy the case with PMDG737: Do you know what is>it like in the real B737 (AP-functions without parallel>FMC-use)?The NG is probably the most accurate NG simulation for MSFS. We have realworld pilots using the PMDG NG for procedural training and that is probably the highest praise you can get.>3) I discovered that the AP together only works when the>*Flight-Director* is OFF. Whenever I switched it to "on" the>PMDG737 didn`t follow Speed, HDG & Alt I entered at the MCP>from that time on. When I switched the Flight-Director "off">everything just worked perfectly.>>a) So, could you just explain why this behaves that strange>way? :)Never heard anyone having that problem before. You have to press CMD a or CMD B to engage the A/P. Then chosing a mode for the A/P like HDG or LVL CHG or VNAV.>:( And what is the Flight-Director good for?F/D ON will show you the F/D bars in the PFD. >4) Another PMDG topic: When I approached EDBT and switched on>the ILS 07R (ISSE) freq. (110.70 MhZ) the localizer&glide>slope was correctly displayed at the Primary Flight>Display(PFD). But when I switched the mode from MAP-Mode to>VOR-Mode (with the knop/selector left of the MCP) the>corresponding display (I dont know the precise name for that>display. I mean the display right of the PFD) there was only>the display saying..."EFIS Mode/Nav Freq Disagree).That is the ND or Navigational Display>So my question: What does the "EFIS Mode/Nav Freq Disagree" at>VOR-mode in the display mean?VOR Mode is good for VOR only. You should use ILS Mode for ILS.>5)Another topic: When flying the PMDG737 at night you can>switch on different light-systems manually. Could you just>give me the *keystroke* command for switching the *TAXIWAY*>lights on/off (I dont like it to go to the overhead panal and>switch that lights with mouse clicks...)? I only found the>keystroke command "L" (=lights) or "Shift+L" or>"Command+L"...but no one of them works for the *taxi*>lights....Check the PMDG Key assignments in the PMDG menu. But I think you have to use the mouse for the taxi lights.>6) To the QNH-settings for the altimeter: Where at the>PMDG-Cockpit can adjust the correct QNH or standard-pressure?>I only found the "easy" way by pressing "b" (Barro), but I>think it has to be a possibilty for entering the pressure>manually, isn`t it?On the EFIS panel to the left of your MCP. Knob to the top right. THat knob changes your QNH setting. It changes between QNH and QNE and also changes between inHG and hPa.>7)I could not find any GPS or GPS-Mode at PMDG737 (600,700):>Isn`t such a GPS (mode) simulated? I think the "real" one has>one (or two?) or...? :)The real NG has two GPS units but no GPS display. It is all integrated into the system. The ND is the primary display. The GPS is simulated to some extent as the ADIRUs for the IRS isn't simulated. But most of these simulations is something taking place behind the scenes.>8)Finally back to the Flight Managment Computer from the>beginning: I saw that the time displayed at the "Index->Pos">Page of the FMC isnt`t that one the FS2K4 has. For example the>FS2K4 time is "11:18zulu" but the FMC says "1328zulu" on the>POS-Page. I couldn`t set the correct GMT at the FMC...so my>question:>>How do I adjust the correct GMT at the FMC, so that it>calculates the correct ETAs,ATAs etc. You don't. The FMC calculates the UTC time from it's position. THe only time you can change it is to change your local time.>Have a great day...You too!A tip is to use the advanced search function on this forum. Most if not all of your questions has already been asked and answered time and again over the years the NG has been out. Done correctly the search will reveal a virtual treasure of information for you.Hope it helps,

[Guest Cantuezel]

Hi,thanks for your warm welcome here guys...:)>>Well. There are some mandatory fields to be entered into the>FMC like weights and CG for the calculations of V-speeds and>such. But it is very much possible to fly the NG without any>use of the FMC at all.>1) Yes, of course it is possible to fly manually the NG without any problems. But what I tried to ask with my question was if it is possible to fly with the AP (with MCP HDG, SPeed, ALt) *without* using the FMC at all? Sorry if that had not become clear...:)>>>:( And what is the Flight-Director good for?>>F/D ON will show you the F/D bars in the PFD. >2) But the F/D does *not* influence the AP with HDG,Alt or speed changes, do I understand you right in that point?>>Another PMDG topic: When I approached EDBT and switched>on>>the ILS 07R (ISSE) freq. (110.70 MhZ) the localizer&glide>>slope was correctly displayed at the Primary Flight>>Display(PFD). But when I switched the mode from MAP-Mode to>>VOR-Mode (with the knop/selector left of the MCP) the>>corresponding display (I dont know the precise name for that>>display. I mean the display right of the PFD) there was only>>the display saying..."EFIS Mode/Nav Freq Disagree).>>That is the ND or Navigational Display>>>So my question: What does the "EFIS Mode/Nav Freq Disagree">at>>VOR-mode in the display mean?>>VOR Mode is good for VOR only. You should use ILS Mode for>ILS.>3) Well, there is no ILS-Mode for the *navigational display* at my NG737-700! There are only the modes...- Approach- VOR- MAP- PLNIs my NGB737-700 cockpit kind of "wrong"? :)4)OK, and what does the sentence in the ND *"EFIS Mode/Nav Freq Disagree"* exactly mean then...? :)And what function is the *EFIS* for?>>6) To the QNH-settings for the altimeter: Where at the>>PMDG-Cockpit can adjust the correct QNH or>standard-pressure?>>I only found the "easy" way by pressing "b" (Barro), but I>>think it has to be a possibilty for entering the pressure>>manually, isn`t it?>>On the EFIS panel to the left of your MCP. Knob to the top>right. THat knob changes your QNH setting. It changes between>QNH and QNE and also changes between inHG and hPa.>Well, I only have the NG737-600/700: At the Efis panel left of the MCP there are only selectors for...- Radio- Mins- BaroWhen I try to change the Baro by pressing "+" or "-" with this knob only the Radio-Altitude changes at the PFD but *not(!)* the Baro (QNH).I tried to switch the selector knob towards the "Baro" selecting but no way...Do you guys have any idea how to solve that problem (or do I have to buy the 800/900 in order to change the Alt-pressure?)?Many thanks once again for your kind help...Have a great week-end...:) :)Greetings Susan

[Guest neeraj.pendse]

Hey Susan,Glad to be of help. A general comment about the the 737-NG and the Airbus A320 and the like: One has to approach flying these planes thinking that the AP is always THERE, in some kind of MODE. On a Cessna it's OK not to provide weight data to the AP and just hit it to "ON", but not these highly complex and capable airplanes and autopilots. So you really can not get away entirely from the FMC.Looks like most of your questions were answered. (3) I do not think I have seen before. However I tend to recall some behavior of the FD that I did not understand. By the way, the FD is to HELP YOU fly the plane, not to help the autopilot (it already knows!)(4) In addition to what Mats said, you might get this same message in the ILS page also if the FMC was not in approach mode I think ... Not really sure but there are ways to get this message when you have set something inconsistantly. But on the ILS page, esp if you have selected an approach on the FMC and are in descent, this should not occur.(7) I would have liked a "terrain overlay" mode. However, it has been claimed in the PMDG manuals that there is no such mode in the real 737-NG, and so there isn't one in the sim. Remember though the plane has a GPS -> except it is enveloped inside the FMC. The real FMC selects GPS, INS (maybe?) or VORs/Navaids automatically, and the pilot does not have to worry.(8) Never seen this one ... I have to check tonight. Is your FS set to "system time" ?

[Mats_J 2]

Susan,I'll try to elaborate a bit on my answers to you.>1) Yes, of course it is possible to fly manually the NG>without any problems. But what I tried to ask with my question>was if it is possible to fly with the AP (with MCP HDG, SPeed,>ALt) *without* using the FMC at all? Sorry if that had not>become clear...:)It is possible to use the HDG mode in the roll channel, LVL CHG and V/S for the pitch channel and SPEED or N1 for A/T without using the FMC.You might even enter V1,Vr and V2 speeds as well as N1 for any particular condition using the N1 and V-SPEED knobs just above the upper display unit. See below pic.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/117837.jpgThe left outer knob will let you choose if you want to change max N1 for ENG1, ENG2 or both. In AUTO the FMC will calculate max N1 for you. The left inner knob will let you change the selected max N1 bug. Right click decreases and left click increases the value.The right outer knob lets you manually enter V1, Vr or Vref speed and bugs. as well as weight in the WT mode for calculation of Vref by weight. AUTO lets the FMC take care of the work load for you.The right inner knob will let you change the selected speed bug. Right click decreases and left click increases the speed.>2) But the F/D does *not* influence the AP with HDG,Alt or>speed changes, do I understand you right in that point?The F/D switch does not influence the A/P. It is for your reference only. You should try to have the F/D bars centered and the speed bug on your speed when engaging the A/P. Or else you might see some wild compensations from the A/P. This is a real world procedure. Fly on the F/D. Get the pitch and roll in the middle and speed as selected. When that is accomplished you might switch over to A/P using CMD A or CMD B.>3) Well, there is no ILS-Mode for the *navigational display*>at my NG737-700! There are only the modes...>>- Approach>- VOR>- MAP>- PLNSorry about that. Approach mode is the ILS mode. ;-)>4)OK, and what does the sentence in the ND *"EFIS Mode/Nav>Freq Disagree"* exactly mean then...? :)>And what function is the *EFIS* for?EFIS simply means Electronic Flight Instrumentation SystemThe Mode/Nav Freq Disagree means that you are trying to display a Nav Mode (in this case an ILS nav aid which has separate frequencies assigned) in an EFIS mode for VOR (VORs are assigned other frequencies in the same band).>>>6) To the QNH-settings for the altimeter: >>On the EFIS panel to the left of your MCP. Knob to the top>>right. THat knob changes your QNH setting. It changes between>>QNH and QNE and also changes between inHG and hPa.>>Well, I only have the NG737-600/700: At the Efis panel left of>the MCP there are only selectors for...>>- Radio>- Mins>- BaroOk. Here's a couple of pitures for starters.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/117838.jpgThe left top knob on the EFIS panel is for your minimums setting. You can chose either RADIO ALTIMETER or BAROMETRIC PRESSURE for selecting minimums. You do that clicking on the MINS text above the button. You will see the outerknob change between RADIO and BARO. To change the value use the clickspots on the left and right side of the knob. To reset the value click ON the knob.The right top knob is for your altimeter. You can choose between inHg and hPa by clicking above the knob on the BARO text. You set the value by clicking on the left and right side of the knob. And you set STD barometric pressure (29.92 inHG or 1013.2 hPa) by clicking ON the knob.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/117839.jpgWhile manipulating the MINS knob you will see the left area change on your PFD. This will show RADIO or BARO and the selected minimum altitude.While manipulating the BARO knob you will see the right marked area change. You should also see the altimeter tape and your stdby altimeter change while changing the QNH value.>Many thanks once again for your kind help...No problemI hope it helps,

[Guest glenb]

Outstanding explanation Mats.

[Guest Cantuezel]

Hi Mats,I just want to say so many thanks for your brilliant explanations and specially for the pics you integrated in your post...:) :)Because here it is very late now (02:30 CET) I`ll "try" your answers right tommorow and then I`ll post a more detailed answer...So have a good night...and many thanks again...GreetingsSusan

[Guest Cantuezel]

Hi Mats,I want to thank you again for your excellent and deep explanations of my many, many questions...Specially the integrated pics of each instrument segment helped me a lot to learn how PMDG works...so, once again thanks for your great work by creating that tutorial.I`ve just one question left:You wrote:"...The right outer knob lets you manually enter V1, Vr or Vref speed and bugs...as well as weight in the WT mode for calculation of Vref by weight..."I don`t understand yet what it is about the *WT-Mode" and the corresponding weight selection.1) What weight do I have to enter there (fuel-weight, gross-weight etc...)?2) At my display (into the PFD) there is a weight of 32kg shown. I *only(!)* can change that weight from 32kg (min) to 68kg (max) When I want to switch the knob towards the VRef selector there comes the error-message "Invalid Entry".Have a great sunday and many sunshine greetings... :) :)Susan

[Guest tmetzinger]

Without touching the FMC, it's possible to use the autopilot in any mode EXCEPT N1, LNAV and VNAV. You won't get Vspeeds computed or called out, and you'll get warnings when landing because Vref won't be calculated. But the airplane WILL follow the autopilot.The Flight Director is how the airplane generates the pitch/roll commands that are followed by either the pilot or the autopilot - it needs to be on for the autoflight system to work.Try this procedure. Pick an airport near sea level.Start up in the -700 with 1000 lbs in the center tank, and 5000 lbs each in the left and right tanks. Set flaps 5 and when you're ready for takeoff, set 160 knots in the MCP speed, set the runway heading in the MCP heading window, and set 8000 feet in the MCP ALT window.Now, with the flight director on, and the autothrottle armed, taxi on the runway. Advance the throttles slowly to 40% N1, and then push them smoothly and quickly forward.At 130-ish knots, rotate the airplane smoothly to 15 degrees nose up pitch, and raise the gear. Pitch the airplane to maintain 140 knots or so.As you pass through 1000 feet above ground, reduce pitch to 10 degrees, press the HDG Button, and the LVL CHG Button, then select CMD A. Your MCP speed may automatically change to 180 knots. What should be happening now is that the airplane should be using full climb power (the PFD annunciator may say either N1 or FMC speed), tracking the runway heading (should see HDG in the annunciator), and pitching the airplane to maintain the selected speed (should see MCP SPD in the annunciator). As you climb, retract the flaps slowly and set 250 knots in the MCP speed window. The airplane will reduce pitch a little to accelerate.As you near 8000 feet, the airplane will level off, the thrust will reduce to maintain 250 knots, and the Annunciator will read MCP SPD, HDG, and ALT HOLD.Take the time to read the documentation on how the various modes work, and what you'll see in the annunciator window. Then experiment by making altitude changes using VS as well as LVL CHG.Best Wishes,