Almost giving up and still do not understand FMC

[Guest stevesj]

RaymondThis is worth a read http://www.b737.org.uk/fmc.htmHTHSteve

[Guest Raymond]

Hi Aidan, Thanks for the reply. Some comments...you indicate "once FMC is complete(as per the tutorial)..I follow the PMDG manuals tutorial line by line but after a page or so, my FMC data does not match the example. I have tried for two months to program the FMC but using three tutorials, I still cannot match the text directions in the tutorials. My data is different. Now question or two (you will no doubt realize how unsophisticated I am in the computer and simulation areas). What is Vatsim? How does one program the Star and where does one get the STar. Why does you find Sids and Stars? and do forth. I have no trouble with fs9 flight plans, IFR and VFR routes, I can start and fly Ready for Pushback's very complicated 747 with or without autopilot. But this FMC has me down. Thanks again.RegardsRaymond

[Guest Daniel Pimentel]

Raymond:I won't give you reasons to keep using the NG, it's your choice to use it or not... And if you choose not to because you don't put the effort into learning the FMC (and I chose those words because the fact that so many of us DO know is testament to the fact that the FMC works as intended and has no problems that make it unusable).1. How does FS's ATC interact with the informtion created in FMC?It doesn't.2. Surely someone has created a tutorial that starts with turning on the computer and takes one through to the landing.Such a tutorial might be available somewhere, but it doesn't solve your problem. You lack theory and knowledge of what an airliner actually behaves like, that's why you haven't gotten the FMC's purpose.3. Why does the information on the screen of the FMC often not match the information on my screeen when I am following the tutorial line by line.Could be many things, but as I said, the best way to learn the FMC is to know what each value is, then follow the logical order (for example, don't ask for V-speeds before you've entered the weights).4. As ATC in FS9 takes you from A to B exactly following a direct line or VOR flight what is FMC for?FS is not realistic out of the box, my friend. This exposes your problem: You're having a hard time letting go of the simplistic method FS uses. The NG operates through the FMC. You can fit ATC into it, but it requires you to know how to edit the route on the fly (for example, if you enter your arrival but your runway is changed, you need to make the changes on the fly in the FMC, this especially applies for online flying).I suggest you familiarize yourself with the way things are done in real life, it might facilitate the transition into the NG. An add-on that lets you use FS' interface like the default planes isn't that terribly realistic. Use the manuals for reference along the learning process, not as a tutorial. Learn what each page is, what information you're supposed to enter... The order of operations is logical. Once you know what everything is, THEN memorize a procedure or print out a page that says how to do it. The FMC is completely independent from FS' ATC, as it should be. The default ATC is awful, I'd suggest VATSIM or no ATC.If you have SPECIFIC questions on what an entry means or what a page is for, feel free to post them. Once you know what everything is, I'm certain you'll master the FMC in no time.By the way, there was a video in French that showed how to set up the FMC for a flight... But I don't know what happened to it, or whether the translation to English was ever completed. You might want to run a search for it.Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)

[Guest ZOTAN]

Raymond,It seems like you are afraid to deviate from the tutorials and experiment on your own. Just try pushing the buttons in the FMC, and see what they do. That is how I learned. The plane wont blow up or anything, so feel free to push as many button as you want.This tutorial really helped me: http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=34250For route planning I go here:http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/I also use this (Most reccomended):http://www.eleventhstreet.com/fb2/showplans.aspxJust enter your departure airport and arrival airport. So on your flight from Los Angeles to San Diego enter KLAX and KSAN.I really reccomnd the first tutorial. It leads you through an entire flight, and really helped me. Make sure you print it out though so you can have it for reference. My email is mstevens901@cox.netIf you have any questions you can email me directly. Good Luck!

[Guest Raymond]

Well Daniel I must respond to your kind reply to my difficulties. As many on this forum are, you are an intelligent, patient, and curious consumer. I must be difficult to read messages on the forum from one who is unsophisticated in flight, navigation, and computers. As an example, I tried very carefully to install a flight and lo and behold the legs and magenta line popped up on the map. However, after two hour in the manuals I could not find a magic switch to click and direct the aircraft to foll0w the outlined legs. I have the Meridian with the Garmin navigation system. Include in the purchase was a tutorial that works perfectly.....what the manual says, the screen on the Garmin refects. Quite unlike the FMC manual, which when one follows precisely, the screen is quite unlike the manual. I don't care how much study or concentration one does, it reading the manual it says when you imput this or that and hit this or that LSK N1 appears and on your plane nothing appears. This is just one example. I repeat, if I turn on my FMC and the screen is different from the example, I am already heading down a bad road. Almost all manufacturers produce and product that permits one to operate it at once, and from that point may encorage one to delve more deeply into its capacities. Where it my company, I would enclude a simple tutorial on the operation of the FMC and then after the consumer mastered that he could go into holds, changes in runways, connecting with ATC in FS9 and so forth. I have read the manuals and I realize that many of you found them simple and easy to understand. Unfortunatly, I lack that sophistication and intelligence.

[Guest glenb]

Raymond,I must reply. In previous responses I have offered to help one on one by asking you to email me. You never replied to any of my posts.It was NEVER easy for me to learn this product. It is complicated, just like the Boeing 737. Do you really think you could just jump into a real 737 push a few buttons and fly away? All of us here have had to work hard to learn and continue to learn the PMDG 737NG. Some airlines use it for training. The FMC is not a product you can operate at once. Many of us have offered to help but it seems to do no good at all.Try reading the manual for the real 747

[Guest Daniel Pimentel]

Well Daniel I must respond to your kind reply to my difficulties. As many on this forum are, you are an intelligent, patient, and curious consumer. I must be difficult to read messages on the forum from one who is unsophisticated in flight, navigation, and computers. As an example, I tried very carefully to install a flight and lo and behold the legs and magenta line popped up on the map. However, after two hour in the manuals I could not find a magic switch to click and direct the aircraft to foll0w the outlined legs.You would input the legs, then the EXEC button would light up. you hit it, and the magenta line should show up completely. You must then look to make sure there are no discontinuities in the route, and if there are, you simply select the previous waypoint (click the LSK next to its name) and paste it where it says NEXT. Now, if you've filled the performance data (ZFW is easy, just click the LSK next to it and it'll fill itself automatically), you can go on to the DEP/ARR section. From there, select the departure runway/SID (if you got V-speeds before doing this, they'll be deleted, just generate them again). Do the same for arrival airport, go to LEGS, clear discontinuities if you find any.All you have to do then is turn off FD (Flight director) and AT (autothrottle) and take off. Once you're airborne and ready, turn on the CMD and hit LNAV and VNAV. The plane should follow the route.I have the Meridian with the Garmin navigation system. Include in the purchase was a tutorial that works perfectly.....what the manual says, the screen on the Garmin refects. Quite unlike the FMC manual, which when one follows precisely, the screen is quite unlike the manual.Manual is not the same as tutorial. One describes expected responses, the other an exact one. But if you're truly having problems, drop me an e-mail at *dpimentel(at)adelphia(dot)net*, I'm sure it can be sorted out quite easily.I don't care how much study or concentration one does, it reading the manual it says when you imput this or that and hit this or that LSK N1 appears and on your plane nothing appears. This is just one example. I repeat, if I turn on my FMC and the screen is different from the example, I am already heading down a bad road.Not really. The FMC values change according to lots of things, including fuel load, route input, and lots of others. So even entering the same thing, if the weight is different, for example, your speeds will vary.Almost all manufacturers produce and product that permits one to operate it at once, and from that point may encorage one to delve more deeply into its capacities. Where it my company, I would enclude a simple tutorial on the operation of the FMC and then after the consumer mastered that he could go into holds, changes in runways, connecting with ATC in FS9 and so forth. I have read the manuals and I realize that many of you found them simple and easy to understand. Unfortunatly, I lack that sophistication and intelligence.That's understandable, just don't blame PMDG on it, since it appears many people got by without. But we're willing to help, just give us a shot. Be specific about where you're lost, what you expect to get and what you're actually getting. As I said, drop me a line over e-mail and I'll try my best to help.Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)

[pbenoit 0]

Hi Raymond,Sad to be so frustrated ... reminds me of when I was really "getting back into" flight sim after years of GA only aircraft ... and bought the PSS 747 .. I was totally freaked out by the FMC ... and it was a very simple one ... but ... it takes time and patience and a "can do" attitude ... you don't need sophistication to do this, just patience.I know you are a RFP flyer ... so maybe a simple analogy might help ... the FMC in the 737 is analagous to the INS in the 747-200 .. with one major exception ... the INS handles lateral navigation ... one waypoint to another ONLY ... where the FMC handles lateral navigation AND Vertical Navigation as well as performance. VNAV will automagically climb, cruise and descend the plane for you at the correct time with very little pilot intervention. The 747-200 was created well before the day of the FMC.My suggestion is this ,,, if you find the tutorials unhelpful ... then don't use them. Or you can simply substitute a simple routing of your own design ... like KSAN to KLAX ... Certainly if you find the MSFS ATC frustrating, don't use it either. Get comfortable with the 737 first ... and the non-FMC autopilot ... the FMC is the heart of modern day aircraft, but the 737 can be flown without the FMC.Start your 737 up on LAX 25R, empty the center tank, give yourself 4000 pounds or so in the right and left tanks and your ready to go to KSAN ... do a simple flight. You can use the autothrottle without using the FMC .. to make speed control easier ... assuming you have figured that out. You will need to follow all the preflight steps to get the plane started and configured for flight ... but NOT the FMC. set the heading to 249 ... the alt to 16000 speed to 160 or so, flaps 5 and take off (remember the AT should be on, and you ned to press the TOGA "screw") rotating at about 130 ... follow the flight director to maintain 160 to 2500 feet, then set speed to 250, turn on the AP and set VS to 2000 or so fpm. Tuen the heading knob to 170 or so and press heading select ... you are now in an AP controlled VS climb with the AP handling the heading and AT handling the speed ... clean up your flaps etc. Look at the MSFS map and set yourself in the general direction of SARGS intersection ... a great place to intercept the localizer for KSAN RW 9 ... set the ILS FREQ and inbound course etc. Using VS and speed, get yourself to sargs at about 2000 feet LOC armed, then APP .. set your speed to 130 and flaps 30 for a landing ... Practice until you can fly the plane ... take off and land happily. You can certainly enjoy this wonderful little aircraft without the FMC ... Then you can introduce the FMC. The FMC exists solely as a tool to help get the plane from point A to point B using the most fuel efficient and safe flight regime. Given a route, weights, temperatures and winds aloft, it calculates the appropriate engine parameters and Vspeeds, etc, to get you to your altitude, cruise and descent in such a way as to save as much fuel as possible ... that's what it's all about theoretically ... workload automation ... but in reality ... ATC still is in charge and you need to use the AP correctly ... FLC or VS in your descent or VNAV descent ... you just have to read about VNAV over and over til it makes sense ... think of VNAV as climbing, cruising and descending automatically based on the computer's best calculations. LNAV simply turns the plane and maintains the path from point a to point b ... (automating you need to change headings, etc ... just steers the plane for you ... nothing fancy ... simply follows the route you enter ... just like the INS)I suggest that you follow Tim Metzinger's tutorial but NOT use his route ... use your own route ... NO SID ... NO STAR at first just a route ... a simple route from KSAN 27 to LAX 25R would be SXC VOR (Santa Catalina) SLI VOR (Seal Beach) and PDZ VOR with a turn west to intercept the localizer for 25R at some point before PDZ. This is a simple route which will take you out over the ocean, then to Seal Beach and a downwind for the 25R approach .. you follow the tutorial in all it's detail, but for the route simply try KSAN 27 as the departure runway, SXC as the first waypoint, then SLI, then PDZ ... with LAX 25R as the ARR runway. If you substitute this simple flight plan for the one in Tim's tutorial ... you can use LNAV to get yourself to LAX ... obviously choosing when to go to heading select as you are on the downwind leg toward PDZ ... this way you are in control and not needing to exactly duplicate the route in Tim's tutorialSorry you are so frustrated with this ,,, but I sincerely feel you are overcomplicating this for yourself. As other guys have said above ... step by step ... you'll get the hang of the FMC in no time.Hope this helps a bit ... I think this a a great bunck of people trying to help you out here!!Paul BenoitKSAN

[Guest Raymond]

Hi Paul.....well you will not believe it but I followed your advice and using the PMDG's FMC manual I loaded the FMC and while there are numerous differences between what appears on their FMC screen and mine I did somehow get all the waypoints. After taking off from SAN I hit LNav and suddenly the plane began to follow our route all the way to LAX where I hit arrival and departures and imputed the runway that KLAX tower gave me I put in the ILS frequencies and changed to approach and the plane landed perfectly. I realize I have a long way to go but at least I got from San to Lax. PMDG is going to prepare a simple tutorial for me and that together with all of the imput by my fellow simmers I might one day fly with some degree of sophistication.

[Guest glenb]

Raymond,Congratulations. It is good to hear about your success. We will see more of you I hope.

[pbenoit 0]

Raymond!!!!Makes my week!!!! Good for you ... very happy to hear you made it!! Cheers!!Paul BenoitKSAN

[Guest Raymond]

Well Paul, I assume the next step will be the vertical aspect of the flight and arrival and landing. I did notice during the flight, that although I had loaded two altitudes I could not get VNAV to work. So it is back to the 1000 pages of manual to try to find out about this landing business. I am right am I not, that you can program the landing aspect into FMC and like APP it will land the aircraft.

[Guest glenb]

Raymond,There is an auto land feature but is a part of the auto pilot not the FMC. If you are locked on the ILS both LOC and GS and engage both auto pilots CMD A & CMD B it will make the approach and flare out for the landing on the center line (most of the time). All you need to do is keep it straight and break to exit the active runway.

[Guest glide]

There is nothing wrong with the 737 or its FMC it simply takes time to learn how to use it correctly many many flights for all of us.and you can make it work very well with fs atc IFR as long as you allow atc to vector you on approach rather than stick to the fmc lateral nav. You must make sure that you have an identicle plan to that in the FMC files with fs atc and it will not conflict .As for flying a classic 747 (RFP) by hand for the entire flight (long haul) which is what they are mainly designed for well this is totally unrealistic and does not happen. Auto pilot is always used with the IRS system.keep practicing with the NG and you will soon realise that it is the only way to fly these aircraft in fs just as the real world if you want realism. it will come together besides its is really not that complex and its all in the manuals.perhaps you need a little more flying experience full stop.Flyn

[Guest Daniel Pimentel]

Hey:Regarding the altitudes, did you input the weights correctly? If so, the aircraft should compute altitudes and speeds based on the optimum performance for the aircraft. If the weights are incorrect, your V-speeds will be off and you might not make the projections for your waypoints.Just making sure.Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)