>I have one answer for you from my end . . . . >>BEFORE you live life and get bad credit (like all Americans>seem to do **sniff**) check out Delta Connection Academy in>Orlando, Florida.>>19 months for full ATP certification with 800 hours logged and>guarenteed interview with Delta Airlines.>>http://www.deltaconnectionacademy.com/I'd recommend them to no end, i did my FAA private and JAA MEP/CPL there, and the training is top notch, the staff very friendly, and they're completely renewing their single engine fleet with full glass cockpit Cirrus aircraft in a few months time.They're not kidding about their airline connections either! They're 100% owned by Delta and i know of several people, including my flight instructor for the FAA private, who have been hired :-)Cheers,Jeff

If you go to those "academies" which offer one price for all your training, you should note that some of them will put you in the right seat of a reginal airliner earlier "too quickly" : you are allowed to fly first officer in the US for a schedule flight with only a commercial cert ... then what happens to the ATP? How much time to the right seat?All these are relevant questions, and do ask them to the school.- Neeraj

G'day ANT,Well it depends on where you are in the world and which airline youd like to fly for such as i know for a fact Qantas Airways in Australia has a Cadetship scheme which skips University (or college) and trains you the way they want you to be trained. :)Cheers and Good Luck Mate

As someone who came to aviation after being established in another career, and who has chosen NOT to pursue an airline career, let me share my thoughts. This outlook is valid for the USA, other countries vary significantly.No matter what you end up doing, you want to get a four-year college degree. In the US, this is pretty much the entry level for any professional position unless you go into the armed forces for 20 years (in which case you'll get the equivalent in education and experience). I do not recommend getting a "flight degree", but if by the time you are a senior you are still crazy about aviation, then I'd recommend going to a school like the University of North Dakota or Spartan Aeronautical University and getting an engineering or business degree - you'll be able to get your flight experience and have a degree that will qualify you for another career if things don't go as planned (which happens more often than not).Depending on your financial resources, you can also pursue a four year degree at a traditional school, and learn to fly and build your ratings during your break.To get a flying job, you need to build a certain amount of time, usually by instructing. Depending on what the market is like (and who knows in four years) you may be able to get hired as a first officer with only a commercial, instrument, and multi ratings and 500 total time with no turbine time (this is what they were looking for in 2000 during a boom phase). Today you'd be competing against pilots with ATP certificates and thousands of hours including turbine time. It's all dependent on the supply and demand of the market.Once hired, you'll have no life (be on call), get paid very little, and be on probation for at least a year, where you can be fired for any reason at all. Once though probation, salary generally picks up, and you can pursue an upgrade path to captain. An RJ captain can make around $60-80K in the USA depending on seniority. You can also make a move to a major flying bigger equipment and longer routes.The top of the airline period is having seniority and flying long routes (transatlantic or transpacific) - here you can make the six figure salaries, but the days of $300K salaries are probably gone forever.So, the upside is you're looking at a flying job, and making maybe 1-2 million dollars over a 25 - 30 year career.Downsides?You can find your career cancelled by a medical issue. Layoffs and other upsets are almost guaranteed. Home and family life is difficult - you need to find a spouse who is happy raising the family by his/herself and being second place to your career. Retirement at 55 is currently mandatory in the USA. Topping it off is the poor manners of the flying public and the indifference of airline management, to whom you are an aerial bus driver.The end result is that there are lots of people who will pursue this career (miserable as it can be) because any other career is even MORE miserable, and the large supply of willing victims prevent any significant changes in the system of "paying your dues". If you find that that you HAVE to be an airline pilot, then be warned and go for it with all your heart.I thought long and hard about switching careers, but I make a six figure salary as an engineer, have good job security, and can have my nice home and family, and afford to fly little airplanes for fun. There is no way I could have this lifestyle as a pilot, and the joy of flying for a living would not compensate for giving up the family and house, etc. Of course, if I started right after college before I got the other stuff, I might be happy eating Ramen 5 nights a week and living alone in a small apartment. With my commercial license, I get paid (don't make much, don't lose any money) to have adventures by ferrying or test flying airplanes, and that's good enough. Perhaps when I retire from engineering, and I'm financially secure, I'll chase after a charter or corporate pilot job, since then the hours and money won't matter so much.Best wishes,

Tim,That was and excellent reply to this young man who has asked us for advice.

Ant,There is a lot of good advice here. I will throw in my 2 cents worth. In the 60

Tim,Hey this is Ant, and I must say, Thank you for all your words of wisdom. As well as everyone who wrote in this thred. I seroiusly take into consideration everyones advice. And I have a passion for Airline flying like no other. It is seriously somthing I am gonna work my but off to hopefully become. But as you all probably remeber when you where in high school, you where confused and stressed out about the amount of schooling and hard work yet to come. So hearing from all of you has really opened my eyes up as to what im in for if I do end up choosing this as my career path. once again Thank You to Everyone!Also one more thing, does anyone know anything about the FAA medical examiner, like what are the standards in order to keep your status as an airline pilot or even be allowed to be one?Thanks,

>Tim,>>Hey this is Ant, and I must say, Thank you for all your words>of wisdom. As well as everyone who wrote in this thred. I>seroiusly take into consideration everyones advice. And I have>a passion for Airline flying like no other. It is seriously>somthing I am gonna work my but off to hopefully become. But>as you all probably remeber when you where in high school, you>where confused and stressed out about the amount of schooling>and hard work yet to come. So hearing from all of you has>really opened my eyes up as to what im in for if I do end up>choosing this as my career path. once again Thank You to>Everyone!>Also one more thing, does anyone know anything about the FAA>medical examiner, like what are the standards in order to keep>your status as an airline pilot or even be allowed to be one?>>Thanks,In the USA, you have to have an ATP to be an airline captain. That means you must pass an FAA first class medical. Not too difficult for someone young, but they pay special attention to cardiac health as you get older, with ECGs starting at age 40 (I think). You get a medical certificate every six months.The good news is that there are special issuances for problems that may crop up later in life, and the airline will help you keep your medical if at all possible, so they can protect their investment. I know airline pilots who developed minor cardiac problems, type 2 diabetes, and other conditions that required special review, and they're all still flying.I recommend that when you start to fly, when you finish your private pilot certificate (which requires a third class medical), go and get a first class medical. This will let you know that you're ok for the ATP and it's still good for three years for private pilot privileges.Also, join the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association - the cost of a yearly subscription is justified by the magazine alone, never mind the rest of the benefits. EAA is another good organization. www.aopa.org and www.eaa.org.If you're anywhere near the Mid Atlantic Region of the US, drop me a private message at [email protected]. We can go flying together sometime.Best Wishes,

You know, one of the reasons why some people who get small cardiac problems can keep their class 1 is money.Basically, where i live, in a JAA country, if they take away my medical now they are obliged to pay me back all costs i took in my training. And this is simply alot of money so often they do skip some minor things. Don't worry though, if it's serious enough, you're out for sure.We have a ECG from day 1 btw Tim.Normally we have a 'big one' every 5 years, which includes the 'full treatment' of ECG, EEG, r

>Then again, this is talking about Europe mainly,>CheersInteresting... in the US, if you lose your medical early in your career, while on probation, you can end up technically owing the airline money to cover the cost of your training! Generally they don't try and collect it though. The medical details I discussed are FAA requirements, I believe that the airlines themselves may have more stringent requirements and perform additional tests. One thing that some captains do if they're without a medical for a while is act as a check pilot or training captain, since they aren't acting as crew, they don't have to have a current medical. I know one or two folk who became Sim Kings at the training center after losing their medical 10+ years into their career.

>Then again, this is talking about Europe mainly,>CheersInteresting... in the US, if you lose your medical early in your career, while on probation, you can end up technically owing the airline money to cover the cost of your training! Generally they don't try and collect it though. The medical details I discussed are FAA requirements, I believe that the airlines themselves may have more stringent requirements and perform additional tests. One thing that some captains do if they're without a medical for a while is act as a check pilot or training captain, since they aren't acting as crew, they don't have to have a current medical. I know one or two folk who became Sim Kings at the training center after losing their medical 10+ years into their career.

>Retirement at 55 is currently mandatory in the USA. Tim,Isn't it 60 instead for pilots? ATC controllers have mandatory retirement age of 56 however.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg

Its 60 for pilots in the US. There has been a lot of talk though about raising it to 65 or beyond.

yeah it's 60 in the US - my mistake.The current push to extend the age to 65 is being driven by a large number of pilots who are nearing 60 and have seen their pension or retirement plans evaporate - they HAVE to keep working past age 60.While I don't think the 60 limit makes sense, it's hard to justify trading one arbitrary age limit for another. Unfortunately there's no objective/scientific way that everyone agrees on to determine when someone is "past it", so we seem to be stuck with an age-based limit.I wish the ALPA lobby luck in getting the retirement age raised - but I'm not optimistic.To make this PMDG-relevant, you can continue to fly the PMDG sims no matter how old or young - no medical required!

>As someone who came to aviation after being established in>another career, and who has chosen NOT to pursue an airline>career, let me share my thoughts. >I thought long and hard about switching careers, but I make a>six figure salary as an engineer, have good job security, and>can have my nice home and family, and afford to fly little>airplanes for fun. Ditto ditto ditto :-) Just like you I squirmed many nights in my bed trying to figure if airline career is really for me. I came to the same conclusion as you. As much as I would drool over a 747 yoke, it probably is not a good idea for me.I have not got to my commercial/instructor yet, because this year I am going back to school ... I am still quite young at 27 and I will become an instructor soon enough. (Now it's a different question why I am leaving my six figure salary to go back to school)Very well said, Tim. I agree with EVERYTHING you said.- Neeraj