PMDG B737-600/700 - Why it didn't Fly

[Guest franksalot]

I'm a new convert to the PMDG B737ng; after taking 2/3 days to read nearly 200 pages of The Manuals (then forgetting the first 150 pages) I felt ready to try out Fred Clausen's first class Tutorial. Having prepared the aircraft for flight....except for one tiny detail, which was, I quote "Set your trim to between 5% and 5.25%"! Fred added the warning "Failure to do will cause a late rotation!....very bad etc. etc." Well, no way could I find out how to set the trim; thinks I 'what the heck, if I go fast enough sure it will unstick!!!' Wrong! I yanked back on the stick...at 180 kts - still on the runway - went past the end of runway 17R onto the grass...hit some trees Bang! away went the tail fin then crash a big plume of back smoke; then I was looking at the desktop :)To cut a long story short, how doe one set the elevator trim? Any help would be very much appreciated.KenSomerset, EnglandP.S. This very serious post is written with some humour.

[kmanning 12]

Hi Ken,In Flight Simulator 2004, the default keys are:Trim up: Num 1Trim Down: Num 7But you can go to the Assignments in FS and change this if you want. You can also assign them to you joystick. I have mine assigned to my joystick. Let me know if you need more help. Hope this helps.Ken.

[Guest thscholz]

>>P.S. This very serious post is written with some humour.Come on. You must be kidding.:-lol Nice story by the way. Reminds me of...hmmm...no, that never happened to me.;-) CheersThomas

[Guest franksalot]

Hello Ken,Many thanks for your reply.Ah!, I didn't realise that that trim ajustment wasn't modelled, I searched everywhere to find the 'magic' button :)No problem, I think I'll follow your suggestion and assign the function to my joystick.Bye for now,Ken

[Guest franksalot]

Hi Ken,If you are still 'listening' :) Since assigning the Elevator trim adjustment to my joystick it's working fine.Made another flight today, using Fred Clausen's Tutorial. After much drama with the descent and landing; I did manage to complete the flight; but used all the sick bags!Two more problems showed up during the flight; 1. N1 page, the V speeds would not auto generate, I had to type them in, no response to my clicking on LSL1R, 2 and 3. 2. VNAV button went blank during my climb to FL350, it happened just after the 'horn' sounded to advise nearing set FL. I was unable to get VNAV working again until I had descended to about 6500'. other than that most of the instruments worked OK.Can you help again?Ken

[Guest frankathl]

Hi Ken,1. I presume you mean the takeoff V speeds? Did you fill in all required information on the FMC pre-flight pages(FMC displays a message ----- PRE-FLT COMPLETE ---- if everything's okay. Else you get ----- PRE-FLT STATUS ----, and the page you need to update appears at LSK 6L). Make sure, for example, that you have input your take off flaps on the TAKEOFF REF page.2. Do you mean that the aircraft did not follow the vertical profile in the FMC? Don't assume VNAV isn't working because the VNAV button on the MCP goes out. To check if VNAV(or any other mode) is engaged, always check the Flight Mode Annunciator(FMA)above the "artificial horizon" on the Primary Flight Display. Going from left to right, we have:Auto-throttle Mode: N1, ARM, RETARD, etcPitch Mode: VNAV SPD, VNAV PTH, etc Roll Mode: HDG SEL, LVL CHG, etcAutopilot Status: F/D, CMDVNAV can certainly be a bit "twitchy" and it may drop out if it is unable to achieve the speed/altitude constraints programmed in the FMC.Hope this is of some help.BR,FrankPS I see you've solved your trim problem, but you might like to know that you can also set the trim on the throttle panel, between the trim wheel and the throttle quadrant. Takeoff trim should always be set within the confines of the green band. /F

[falcon999 24]

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[falcon999 24]

>1. N1 page, the V speeds would not auto generate, I had to type them in, no response to my clicking on LSL1R, 2 and 3.FYI: in the R/W 'V' speeds don't auto generate on the NG's FMS. They must be entered manually. To use the PMDG extra special magical amazing gee wiz auto generate 'V' speed feature, right click on each LSK. George

[Guest franksalot]

Hi Frank,Thanks for your reply.If I deal with the elevator trim first; I could not find any way to adjust the trim - I noticed the slot and the green band either side of the throttle quadrant but no way to adjust the trim. But, if I press the assigned buttons on my joystick I can see the trim adjuster moving, same deal with keys 1 and 7 on the keyboard. So that suits me fine.On the VNAV front, after T/O at approx. 1000ft I activated both the VNAV and the LNAV both worked well as I climbed toward FL350; then at around FL342 the 'horn' sounded, lights began to flicker, then I saw the VNAV lights had gone out and the aircraft remained at FL342, also the Speed button lights came. It seems as if the aircraft didn't want to complete the climb to FL350 :) - I completed the climb using the Speed and LVL CHG buttons. FD and A/T ARM buttons remained active. One thought did occur to me as the aircraft circled KLAX Airport for the 8th time :) - nearing FL340 I noticed the speed falling away and adjusted the Speed from Mach. .77 to .78!! did this 'miff' VNAV?Ken

[Guest franksalot]

Hello George,DOH! I never thought about using right clicking the V speed buttons. I'll give it a go tomorrow. I appreciate your help.I'm finding the PMDG B737NG much more complicated than my PSS Airbus A320.Ken

[Guest frankathl]

Hi Ken,Trim - sorry, my reply was incomplete, but I thought you could move the trim by clicking with the mouse(bit embarassed, actually, as I use the joystick buttons, as well!)?EDIT: By the way, the trim we are discussing is the STAB trim, not elevator trim, ie, the whole horizontal stabilizer moves, not the elevator. I point this out because I have a question - are there elevator trim tabs on the NG(I can't see them in external view)? If so, how do you operate them?V Speeds - I misread the meaning of "auto generate" in your mail as indicating that when you click on the line select keys, the speeds don't appear, but I see Thomas has cleared that one up for you! By the way, I think you LEFT click on the RIGHT Line Select Keys(not right click), but am not near the simulator right now.VNAV - questions:What altitude did you have in the MCP ALT window(35000?)?What modes were showing on your FMA after the VNAV light went out?Did you enter altitude/speed constraints in the vertical profile(LEGS pages)?BR,Frank

[crvm 0]

>>1. N1 page, the V speeds would not auto generate, I had to>type them in, no response to my clicking on LSL1R, 2 and 3.>>FYI: in the R/W 'V' speeds don't auto generate on the NG's>FMS. They must be entered manually. To use the PMDG extra>special magical amazing gee wiz auto generate 'V' speed>feature, right click on each LSK. >>George>>> I'm not to sure about that George, it might actually be an airliner option (for those who can afford it of course)...But I am not 100% about it either..[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]

[Guest franksalot]

Hi Frank,"Trim - sorry, my reply was incomplete, but I thought you could move the trim by clicking with the mouse(bit embarassed, actually, as I use the joystick buttons, as well!)?" I had to smile at that :) - I guess in the real aircraft you could adjust the trim from the pedestal. Not to worry, we are on the same 'wavelength'.I don't know if we are allowed a small .jpg on this forum, but I have a shot of the tail of my B737-700 that shows about a third of the stabiliser moves up/down, where I live we would call that the elevator, the rest of that section we call the stabiliser (same thing in my R/C model aircraft experience); but I'm not an expert. The section that moves also appears to move when I apply trim. I am now confused :)I'll have to answer your other questions later, with the VNAV not working and the speed falling away there was some 'panic' on the flightdeck!! So I didn't see what else was going wrong, except I know I set the flight level to FL350.Ken

[Guest frankathl]

Hi Ken,I've checked this out in my setup previously: the elevators are controlled with pitch commands(forward/back on the joystick) as in your pic. However, with adjustment of the trim wheels(joystick buttons, one for UP, one for DOWN), the whole horizontal stabilizer moves(cants). On your pic, you will notice a track(arc) on the fuselage near the inside leading edge of the stabilizer. This shows the direction of movement of the stab when the trim wheels are moved.The question in my previous mail relates to balance tabs on the elevators themselves. From my experience, I don't think there are any?BR,Frank

[Guest franksalot]

Hi Frank, yes that's true, the whole of the moving section of the stabiliser is activated by the (in our case) joystick and trimmed by the joystick buttons as necessary. No I'm sure there aren't any balance tabs; I have seen those tabs on some other aircraft but not this one. Have to say that this PMDG aircraft is the best I've ever seen on my Flight Sims.Ken