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Guest cliffie1931

A normal FMC result or needing the update?

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Guest cliffie1931

After downloading the upgrade I've flown a couple of Flight Plans where I change the destination runway from that originally programmed into the FMC.However the more I fly I suspect that it is my ignorance rather than a bug in the FMC that is the problem. Sticking to the Plan is easy but changing runways is my problem.I've again referred to the Manual but I'm still hazy about the correct procedure.I've been doing the following:1.I press Dep/ARR and am presented with the page headed DEP/ARR Index.2.I press the KLAX ARR button on the right, select runway 25L in order to change from the original Runway 6 to runway 25L. I then Execute.Here's where I become hazy as I don't select and activate a STAR...I don't know which STAR to choose. In an effort to rectify that problem I have installed SimPlates 2004 and now have in front of me a chart headed "ILS RWY 25L". Should I be identifying the best STAR by using this chart?Currently, not knowing which STAR to select, I've been selecting ONLY the runway3.I move to the Legs page and lose the prompt boxes by replacing them with the waypoint underneath each prompt box.Am I going wrong somewhere? Should I also be deleting certain waypoints?Cliff

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Cliff,Check to see that you haven't the previous STAR selected. This is most likely the culprit here. If you have it selected still just line select it again to unselect. This should delete the associated waypoints. You probably have a mix of STAR and IAP waypoints.To know what STARs to use you might wanna check out www.myairplane.com There you can download charts for most american airports.Hope it helps,

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Guest Buck Bolduc

>I would think that my data base is pretty current as the FMC>is loaded with AIRAC-0511.>>I'm interested to see whether the problem exits after>downloading the update shortly available.>>Cliff>>That happend to me a few times. Look in your legs pages and you will see your problem. One arrival after another is what I had.Go into plan mode, step thru and you can see it.This if I understand you correctly.

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I use Simplates 2004. Must of the charts are circa 2003 so there may be some discrepancies if you are using current AIRACS. You also can get current charts here direct from the FAA:http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/onlineproductsfree. Select the TPPs, input KLAX, and you will get a list of DPs, STARS, and IAPs.On your Simplates you will note a separate Arrivals function on the left that lists STAR locations and names. This works different from selecting the IFR charts as done by ICAO which gives you DPs and IAPs.The IAP chart you have already looked at may give you one or more IAFs for the final IAP approach. The trick is to pick a STAR that favors your enroute arrival direction, allows the runway of choice, and may contain the STAR termination including the IAF for your runway IAP or point close enough to accept vectoring or your own nav.There is another feature in Simplates you can use. If you select the airport info for your departure airport you then have the option to select FAA or NIMA Preferred Routes. Your whole plan including the DP and STAR might be in there if frequently used. FAA Preferred Routes if approach/departure ATC jurisdictions overlap allow ATC control to be passed among all the local control areas without transfering you to enroute centers as is done in dense areas like the East Coast. You can use these preferred routes for any airports along there route joining them approaprfiately. You will note the preferred routes are multiple at times but they offer different aircraft performance and cruising altitudes for you class of aircraft and flight.Simplates has a wealth of info but can be sparse in some none-US areas. It is my first choice for US flights.

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Guest cliffie1931

Ron I'd appreciate it if you would expand on your comments a wee bit.I see the list of STARS on your site but am at a loss to know which one to choose for any specific runway.Surely therefore I must first consult a chart that will show which STAR should be used? And if that's the case what is the name or type of chart to consult?Cliff

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A STAR's name frequently includes a navaid or waypoint in its route. If you look at your enroute chart you may find a common VOR ort waypoint based on your incoming direction.Since I frequently use airports that take advantage of STARs repeatedly, I usually download the whole collection plus the airport diagram. I also download the ILS approaches without repeating those for different CAT classes seeing that they are similar enough.Most airports have STARS that serve multiple runways with breakouts serving each. The incoming direction should indicate which STAR is preferable by finding a waypoint/navaid in common. Keep in mind that if being vectored you will probably not complete a STAR anyway. If you are doing your own navigation then one of the STAR legs should take you to the IAF for approach.So look at your enroute chart showing waypoints/navaids near the airport for your your incoming direction.As an example, open up MSP on that site. If you are coming from the northeast chances are you may be passing near EAU CLAIRE so have a look at that.KASPER as I recall is southeast so coming from that direction such as enroute from Chicago to Minneapolis via the southern route look there. KASPER intersection is shown on the enroute which gives you a clue.The enroute will show GOPHER (VOR GEP) north-northeast of KMSP so coming from that direction you would investigate that. Keep in mind that when I say near the airport I mean up to a range of 125nm from destination where some STARS start.In conclusion, for the few major airports I look at them all preferably via Simplates.Departures are shown in the same list on the naco site as the arrivals and IAPs. You'll see a next page link for complex airports. They follow the airport diagram listing.BTW, if a STAR is runway specific I believe it might be in the name - haven't checked.Search out ORD. Get the JANESVILLE 4 and BRADFORD 4 STARS. Note in each case the common VOR (JVL and BFD respectively) where the entry legs merge. Perhaps the 4 stands for the four legs to the airport after crossing the common route point. Again these VORs show on the enroute charts (NW and SW of ORD - O'hare) so you get an idea of the STAR name from these.I have a suggestion that is relatively inexpensive. The whole collection of high altitude US enroute charts is about $13. This might be better than looking a parts of route charts on a computer screen, at least it is for me. By looking at the whole route by placing the charts edge to edge or at least looking at the high altitude chart for departure and arrival thats shows all the navaids and waypoints available, perhaps that will make choosing a DP and STAR easier. It did for me once I observed the STAR name included a navaid or waypoint name.Do I make sense?Here also is a link to the FAA preferred routes database. I just put in the three letter depature and arrival codes without filling in the other data and let it go.http://www.fly.faa.gov/Products/Coded_Depa...s_database.htmlEffective 10/27/2005 until 12/22/2005 # Orig Dest RtType Num Hour1 Hour2 Hour3 Area Aircraft Altitude Direction Route String DEPTARTCC ARRARTCC1 MSP LGA H 1 MSP DLL BAE J34 J146 ETG MILTON-STAR LGA ZMP ZNYIt doesn't format well here but look at the route string from Minneapolis to LaGuardia. Notice it includes the MILTON-STAR.Try this in your FMC and step through it to see what happens.Another suggestion is to use FSBuild. It runs without FS running and offers you STAR and DP lists for arrival and departure. You can also out in almost the route list above verbatum, build the plan, and look at it on its map to see if it makes sense. FSB 221 also can export the route when your done with it to PMDG for import into the FMC as a company route. In this case the STAR waypoints will already be in the plan.With FSBuild running with a third party active weather program, you can also incorporate winds-aloft. You then can generate a dispatch like report that pilots use to brief the FMC.Choices, choices :).

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Guest cliffie1931

Ron I'm grateful for the effort you've devoted to guiding me. Hence I want to acknowledge it and thank you without delay.I'm going to need time to do justice to your suggestions and will revert when I've absorbed the information.Regards,Cliff

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