Seatbelt and no smoking signs in the 747

[WebMaximus 372]

Hi,Noticed that when the switches for seatbelt and no smoking signs are in their 'Auto' position you don't get any EICAS messages telling you what their actual position really is - how does this work in the real a/c and how are these switches normally used IRL - anyone who knows?In the Virgin Atlantic DVD I own I belive I noticed the FO use one of these switches to alert the cabin crew departure was imminent and also that they didn't have these switches in their 'Auto' position.Any comments from someone who knows or maybe some real 747 driver?

[markadeane 272]

'Auto' hands control of the signs to the Cabin Crew I believe. General practice would be for the flight crew to use the switch:-From OFF to ON once doors are closed and armed-as a notifcation of imminent takeoff and landing (ON-OFF-ON to get the tone)-ON in the climb up to at least 10,000 feet, AUTO thereafter unless there were still turbulent conditions.-ON at any point in the cruise where turbulence is encountered or anticipated-ON from early in the descent. (not sure exactly where)-ON to OFF once doors are opened at the gatePractice may vary from operator to operator and I'd be keen to hear of other methods or uses.

[Guest yoyomike]

At Philippine Airlines, you cycle the Seatbelts sign to alert the crew before takeoff and the no smoking sign before landing. I believe keeping the seatbelt sign at auto during descent automatically arms the seatbelt signs passing 11,500.Mike

[WebMaximus 372]

Thanks for your reply Mark but still...what exactly does the 'Auto' mode do - simply gives the control of the signs to the cabin crew and if so...does that mean they have their own switches to operate the signs? And if they do, will you get any EICAS messages in the real a/c indicating the current state of the switches or will you only get those when operating the switches up front?

[Check_Airman 3]

Actually, the airline can specify what happens in the AUTO position.Paul

[victorlima01 2]

the way these things are going nowadays next thing you know the airline gets to choose what happens when you pull and push on the control column! ;)Best Regards,Victor Limahttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/800driver.jpg

[Vampire_NZ 0]

Maybe this will be useful. Got it straight out of the AOM so it's probably specific to the operator.======================Cabin SignsThe cabin signs are controlled by selectors on the aisle stand. The signs illuminatewhen the following conditions are satisfied:FASTEN SEAT BELTS signs (AUTO selected):

[WebMaximus 372]

Very interesting info and your post reminded me that I actually got this AOM myself, just didn't think of it before asking the question.Especially found this part interesting that answers my question about the memo messages when having the switches in their auto position and appearently the messages only show when setting the switches in their on positions manually.>The memo message SEATBELTS ON displays when FASTEN SEAT BELTS>signs are manually selected ON.>The memo message NO SMOKING ON displays when NO SMOKING signs>are>manually selected ON.>When FASTEN SEAT BELTS signs and NO SMOKING signs are both>selected>ON, the memo message PASS SIGNS ON displays, and memo>messages>SEATBELTS ON and NO SMOKING ON are inhibited.But what might be missing in PMDG's simulation when it comes to these switches is the low tone that should be heard when the signs illuminate or extinguish if having the switches in their auto positions. I have never heard the tone without manually turning the switches.>When the cabin signs illuminate or extinguish, a low tone>sounds over the PA system.

[Tabs 2,790]

>the way these things are going nowadays next thing you know>the airline gets to choose what happens when you pull and push>on the control column! ;)I don't think Paul was suggesting that company can sit there and control the behavior of the switches remotely - rather, the function of the switch is a carrier option that each individual airline chooses when they order a 747-400... ;)

[Check_Airman 3]

That tone may be a carrier option.Paul

[Qavion 19]

"But what might be missing in PMDG's simulation when it comes to these switches is the low tone that should be heard when the signs illuminate or extinguish if having the switches in their auto positions."Richard, it's not missing in my version of PMDG's 744. Are you sure you were listening out for the sounds (above wind and other cockpit noises)?BTW... the signs are not controlled by the cabin crew...unless they started cutting/disconnecting wires in the ceiling :(On the real aircraft, it may be harder to hear the sounds in flight (more wind noise). You CAN hear some sound throught the cockpit floor from the first class cabin speakers. You can also hear it if PA audio is selected on your Audio Selector Panel (Pedestal).There should be no reason why you are not hearing the sound in the sim. Please check them again ;)Cheers.Q>

[WebMaximus 372]

Hi Q!Actually I do hear the sounds when manually operating the switches but never heard them when I have the switches in their 'Auto' positions but maybe they are there too...have to listen more carefully. Because the sound should be there when the signs are operated automatically as well, is that right?

[Qavion 19]

That's right, Richard ... I checked them yesterday ;)Cheers.Q>

[WebMaximus 372]

OK, and when exactly should I expect to hear them when having the switches in 'Auto' if I start in a cold & dark config - when will they be switched on/off automatically?

[Qavion 19]

Richard....Vampire NZ has given us these details in the message above.I didn't check all the scerarios, but the day before yesterday, when descending through about 10,000', I heard the FSB (Fasten Seat Belt) chime... and when I put the gear down for landing, I heard the NS (No Smoking) chime.I don't know when you will first hear the chime when powering up from a dead ship because I don't know what position your switches are currently in (and you may not be able to distinguish the FSB/NS chimes from all the other sounds on power up... There is usually quite a cacophony when you first apply power to an aircraft)Note that the real 744, unlike some aircraft, won't sound the chime if no change of state occurs when you switch from OFF to AUTO to ON or vice versa. E.g. If the AUTO function has already sounded the FSB (signs on) chime, you won't hear the chime again if you put the switch to ON.Cheers.Q>