Huge Breakthrough in Out of Memory CTD (I Hope!!!)

[psolk 3,040]

First, I apologize if you already read this in another forum, alot of us frequent many forums some of us only one or two and I am trying to get as much visibility to this post as possible.Everyone, I really hope this is the final fix. This could get long because it has been almost a year long struggle and I tired everything as you can see below but I think I finally found an issue that might affect a lot of others. If you want the quick fix skip right to the end but trust me it is worth the read. I am sorry that I am going to flood the forums with this post but hopefully I can help someone with my findings.I need some help confirming it so hopefully some others can help. In addition to the list of possible CTD's seen below that I have found through extensive testing (almost a year) I think I may have just found the one final killer I was missing. I literally tried everything in the list below which is basically a compilation of every error message post I have seen throughout the forums.I was down to JUST UTUSA and GE in the US for the past 3 months. No other scenery add-ons. Despite this whenever I would come into the New York area in any of the Heavies, LVL-D, PMDG or PSS I would get the dreaded out of memory error followed by a CTD. I monitored the mem usage and it usually happened with at least 800 megs of PHYSICAL memory available so I knew it was bogus and was being generated by the software. I found ALL of the things below to cause CTD's, NOT the planes You get to read all of these before you get to the breakthrough at the end!!! Any one can be your killer...In no particular order...1. Improper Sid/Star2. Add-on scenery including modified Afcad files3 Modified AI with bad testures as well as bad AI Afcad and Duplicate Afcad due to AI trafiic:3A. AI is a killer. If you use an add-on traffic program, open up the AFCAD to an airport like KJFK. Then open up the surrounding files, KEWR, KLGA. In total you will have something like 1000 AI in a 20 mile span. MT for example lists KEWR with something like 15 runways and gives ILS approaches for helicopters. Now you multiply that by 3 airports in the region and your poor simulator is trying to load 45 runways. All of these files get used even if you are not flying into that particular airport. Remove the Afcad entirely or try even removing surrounding Afcads. You can also manually go in and correct the runway usage. KEWR for example should have 4L/22R closed for landings and 4R/22L closed for departure. Personally I disable 11/29 completely as it is very rarely used in real life. In other words, there is a lot of factors that need to be looked at with AI beyond just texture issues. Duplicate AFCADS or AFCADS with conflicting information will also cause a CTD or OOM message4. Other add-ons while you fly4A Third party programs that when used in conjunction with certain add-ons cause an out of memory. They might be fine alone or with other a/c but there are certain programs that just do not play well with some of the more advanced add-ons.5. How much physical RAM do you use and what your swap file is set to:5A Also a corrupt swap file can cause this error in which case Microsoft.com has a fix for removing and recreating the swap6. How much free space is available on the drive with a swap fileIf a drive is low on space and can not grow the swap it will produce this message7. In the unlikely event it is a hardware memory error: run memtest8. Modified terrain.cfg9. Improperly removed scenery from a previous install10. Improper Render to Texture setting in FS9.cfg11. Landclass files improperly placed. BIG ONE HERE!!! There are some rumors going around that a LandClass file should NEVER have a texture folder and that ANY LC file with a texture folder will cause a leak. That is not true. If the LC file specifically calls a texture file in the texture folder it is referencing then there is no problem. If the LC file does not call any texture files and there is an empty texture folder it will still search the texture folder but it will not free up the memory it uses to search. It looks some more, memory never gets released and you have an Out of Memory error. This is when the there should be no texture folder. People assume anytime they see a LC file it needs to be moved and that is not necessarily the case.Also, do not assume because it is payware it is correct...12. One thing I have found for certain is that it is very rarely ONE add-on causing a problem. It is usually another add-on that might have been added at a later date that forces the issue to surface. Sometimes an add-on that has worked for years will be exposed for the issue it had all along by another add-on you added later. Never assume it is just the plane you are flying OR the last thing you added. It could go much much deeper...Now despite trying ALL of this and getting down to a fresh install, I still ahd CTD's with an Out of Memory. At my wits end I started looking for new solutions I had not heard anywhere else yet. Mark McG. at LVL-D had always mentioned checking the name of the Airports in every Afcad you were using matched the default. For example, if you were using an Afcad for KEWR and the default Afcad said Newark Intl make sure your add-ons used the same name. I finally when I had no other answers decided to check the name of the Afcad matched the name of the Airac files we all use. Sure enough Bingo, KEWR was listed as Newark Liberty International NOT Newark Intl the airport names did not match. I chaged all of the entries in the Airac and set off on my same 9 hour flight from Rome to Newark I have been trying to complete for over 9 months. Incidentally I can always fly into Rome and leave the sim going for days but can never come home. i have been stuck in Italy for months Sure enough I got to my ALTN airport which was KJFK Kennedy Intl in the Afcad and I had the CTD with an Out of Memory error. Here I stopped to cry, take a shot of vodka, cry some more, think about giving up simming forever, throwing the computer out the window and cried some more.Not giving up I went back into the Airac and did a search on KJFK. BINGO AGAIN, this is listed in the AIRAC as John F Kennedy International, not Kennedy Intl. I changed this is every spot in the Airac I found it, there were quite a few entries in different files, loaded up my ASV6 SU3, FsPassengers, FsBuild FlightPlan, Lago Rome scenery, UTUSA, GE 2006, LvL-D 767 the first time, PMDG 744 the second and PSS 77 the final and FINALLY AFTER ALMOST A YEAR I AM HOMEThe sim has been running for hours, no issues at all. I honestly think that the missing link that has been causing so many of us issues since the release of these add-on heavies is Airport name mismatches with Airac files. It is one variable I have not seen mentioned before in any forums and in my case allowed me to complete a flight I have failed at probably 100 times in the past year (ever since the release of LVL-D.)I honestly want to kiss my computer right now. Please others, try this confirm this and give me some feedback. I really hope this is the golden ticket we have all been looking for...Sincerely,-Paul SolkLiquid CooledAMD 4000 San Diego2 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2Dual 7800 GTX24 inch widescreen dual 19 inch LCDRaid-0http://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.html

[michal 44]

>Not giving up I went back into the Airac and did a search on>KJFK. BINGO AGAIN, this is listed in the AIRAC as John F>Kennedy International, not Kennedy Intl. Paul,Not sure I follow your findings. Are you saying that there could be a naming conflict between AFCAD and AIRAC? I see no connection between those two entities (one is used by AI another by your FMC) so I fail to understand significance of the difference between John F Kennedy International and Kennedy Intl. These are just name-strings and software most likely is using only KJFK to identify the airport.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

[Tabs 2,790]

Paul,Can you get on MSN and talk to me when you see this... thanks!

[psolk 3,040]

Hey Michael,Thanks for the feedback. The correlation from my understanding is that Afcad is being used to Load an airport name into the software like you said. It is then reporting that information to the FMC. How else does the FMC know what airports are close enough to display? It reads them from FS. THE FMC is also looking for that information based on what you have programmed into it. If the airport name that is being used by the .bgl or Afcad uses a specific name then the FMC information should match. It is never good to have a discrepancy amongst files referencing the "same" thing. FS reports one name and the FMC thinks it should be something else and bang, error message. I have seen stranger things than a bogus string comparison cause CTD's with FS. This out of memory message is so obviously software generated and has been around since the LVL-D and was subsequently seen in PMDG and PSS. It is NOT the a/c like so many people blame otherwise it would be consistent at every airport so it had to be some common files that all three add-on A/C used. I spent nine months looking at it from the sim out rather than the airplane in. My plane is still parked at KEWR after its flight in from LIRF 19 hours straight running...This is basically a trial and error experiment on my part for almost a year. I have tried every possible option under the sun yet still had CTD's at default KEWR. It was only after changing both KEWR from Newark Liberty International to Newark Intl to match the .bgl and John F Kennedy Intl to Kennedy Intl in the Airac to make them match the .bgl's that I was able to complete the same flight that had failed 100 times consistently over 9 months. How coincidental is it that the flight before crashed as soon as I passed KJFK on my approach yet as soon as I change the airac I can fly right over JFK and right into EWR without any issues? Coincidence? Maybe...I appreciate the response though, after all I think this is the first time someone has presented this as a possible CTD cause...Ryan, I am a few hours ahead of you, it is 7:40 am and I am around for the next hour or so, then I am off to meetings at Avaya. We can MSN this afternoon if you are around...Thanks again for the feedback,-PaulLiquid CooledAMD 4000 San Diego2 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2Dual 7800 GTX 24 inch widescreen dual 19 inch LCDRaid-0

[michal 44]

Thanks Paul.I was only wondering because I do fair amount of data "string" programming in my day job and would consider something what you describe as a design/implementation error. There should be enough robustness in the software to survive similar "incidents". Impressive detective work on your part I must say.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

[Tabs 2,790]

Paul I'm gonna have to verify with the team, but for some reason I don't think the FMC reads airports and runways from the FS BGL's - I think it gets em out of the navdata just like it does for fixes, airways, sids/stars etc. This is puzzling for sure... You can reproduce the CTD and eliminate it at will just by doing this?

[Guest firehawk44]

"Now despite trying ALL of this and getting down to a fresh install, I still ahd CTD's with an Out of Memory."You about covered every possible thing that can go wrong with FS9 if you're not careful and install the addon's incorrectly. You may have found the solution for your problem but I doubt this is the "magic bullet" to kill "Out of Memory" errors. Otherwise, everyone who has the software you listed would be getting "Out of Memory" errors and they don't. I surely haven't messed with my AFCAD's and I don't get an "Out of Memory" error. When you did a clean install of FS9 and still received the "Out of Memory" error, that should have been a clue that it wasn't a problem with your FS9 installation but with your computer system - a hardware problem. Out of Memory errors are mainly caused by bad installation of video cards/sound cards; the memory itself not properly installed; or the memory is not "system managed" but managed by the computer operator through system properties. I have never heard of FS9 actually causing the "out of memory" error. FS9 is extremely graphics intensive and you need to have everything working properly or it will crash -- just like any other graphic intensive game. Glad you were able to fix your problem!Jim

[psolk 3,040]

Jim, I never said I found the silver bullet nor did I claim I was going to cure everyones issues. I merely claimed that I HOPED I had found something that could help others. "Now despite trying ALL of this and getting down to a fresh install, I still ahd CTD's with an Out of Memory."Let me clarify that point, with vanilla FS and no add-ons at all, no aircraft, I can never create a problem on my box. When using Vanilla FS AND an add-on aircraft I can recreate the issue at will in a certain area. For example, I flew the PMDG 744 from KEWR to Rome. Let it sit overnight and ended up getting admitted to hospital in the middle of the night. I was hospitalized for a week, got home and FS was still running. Try to do the return flight however and I have never had any luck. Fly from KEWR-KSEA, no issues, do the return and crash. This is with all 3 add on heavies consistently for 9 months or more. Then I make this change and immediately my issue has gone away.Now... please please do not point the finger at my system. My post also has nothing to do with installing add-ons correctly. There are certain add-ons that cause conflicts, period, do you run all of the same add-ons I do for example? There are others that are improperly written. My findings have nothing to do with me installing add-ons incorrectly.Look at what I have gone through for the past year, don't you think I ruled out hardware with days of running HeavyLoad and Memtest? I have tried different motherboards, different sets of Ram, 3 different video cars, Raid, non-Raid etc... Please sir, if you read this entire thread, don't you think I am smart enough to have ruled out h.w. and default issues first. If it is hardware how do you explain being able to fly anywhere else in the world? Where did I blame FS? I play other games for days, I have no issues at all with my system other than certain flights in FS. By the way, your comment of FS being very graphics intensive shows your limited knowledge of the inner workings of FS. It is CPU intensive, not graphics. In fact, it is one of the least graphics intensive games I ever use on my system. 90% of the time your graphics are waiting on your CPU. If you are going to try and teach me something at least be accurate tiwht your statement. Oh and BTW, I am far from the only person to claim crashes with out of memory errors in the NY area with add-on heavies, search the forums...-PaulLiquid CooledAMD 4000 San Diego2 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2Dual 7800 GTX 24 inch widescreen dual 19 inch LCDRaid-0

[Guest firehawk44]

"If you are going to try and teach me something at least be accurate tiwht your statement."Paul,You sounded like a really nice and intelligent guy when I read your original post and you probably are. You did a lot of research and the flight sim community appreciates it I'm sure. Your original thread asked for feedback and I provided some of my thoughts. I'm sorry if they weren't accurate in your mind. It's difficult to communicate properly in threads without getting someone's dander up. I realize now I probably should have agreed with your research as well as laid out my ideas/thoughts regarding out of memory errors.I too have done a lot of research into these "out of memory" errors and you're the first one who found a FS9 addon at fault. That's great and I hope it helps the flight sim community. Yes, I too have the same addon's mentioned in your original thread.... probably many more. However, I do not receive out of memory error messages because of my addon's. They were caused because I fiddled with my page file or I recently upgraded my video card drivers and they didn't install correctly. Several others receiving the out of memory errors have fixed their problem the same way I did. I hope your findings will help others as well.Ciao,Jim

[Guest]

Great kinds, Paul. Thanks for your work and dedication.So if I have the addon scenery for KPSP by Shez, and he named his airport Palm Springs Regnl but my addon afcad is Palm Springs International, it will not work? Or does the afcad have to be the "official" name that the sidstars addon uses?Where do I go to look up the AIRAC info?Thanks!

[Guest SKireyev]

>Where do I go to look up the AIRAC info?>>Thanks!Check out this thread. He explained it to me there:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=14381&page=-----------------------------------------Sergey Kireyevhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_pf.jpg

[Tabs 2,790]

1. No need to start flaming each other. Please don't or I'll be forced to lock it...2. I don't think people should go making all these changes to their navdata until there's some evidence this is really an issue. I can fly this route without getting an out of memory error. Shouldn't it cause the error on anyone's system if the problem is a mismatch between the BGL and navdata? I need to talk to the team (haven't had a chance yet) to see if the FMC even reads this data - my inkling is that it doesn't - the whole purpose of the navdata files is to have an up to date database - why would this require reading the BGLs?

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

Guys,All you have to do is look at your addon directory and you'll clearly see that FMC's read a text file with the navdata in it. Those text files usually contain the data from DAFIF or similar sources.If they don't read a text file, then they read an XML file which contains the same information.If you have an AFCAD causing a CTD it is most likely due to the fact the you have 2 conflicting AFCAD's and that doesn't always mean you'll CTD.NavData should have NOTHING to do with BGL files.

[Guest Senior Captain]

Great work Paul im sure it will help some.Cheers

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Greetings, Captains!I've read through nearly all of Pauls research, suppositions and discussions during the past few months- and while I don't think anyone is in a position to certify any results, I think everyone in this forum owes Paul a bit of thanks for his tireless efforts to solve a problem that still plagues a few users.We are hoping to back Paul's suggestions up with research done at the development level- and if we can find some substantive data to support this theory- we aren't afraid to use our contacts in/around the MSFS development team to see if they can be of assistance or offer clarification as to what/why we might be seeing such things...One thing I would like to suggest, however, is that we also consider carefully that some AFCAD files themselves contain conflicting information. On the face of it- given what I know of how our FMC uses data from the Navdata/SIDSTAR files- there really isn't much reason to suspect that having NAVDATA/AFCAD reporting different information matters a whit to the sim....I'm interested in seeing some data on different AFCADs, and/or is the difference between the AFCADs/BGL Navdata from within MSFS is a factor. After all- the BGL navdata is aging much faster than many AFCADs....So- nothing conclusive- just more questions- but we are watching/reading and researching... We'll seek help on the community's behalf when we feel it is appropriate to use such contacts in that fashion.Bravo, Paul... Nice discovery!