ILS problem

[maurizio 0]

Hello.I run PMDG 747-400 bought in Italy on CD . If I go from Fiumicino (LIRF) to Torino Caselle (LIMF),where there is only a runway with ILS,when ATC give me the heading to intercept the localizer I set APP on MCP,and the autopilot capture the localizer (and GS). If I go from LIMF to LIRF,where there are four runways with ILS,I set in the FMC the approach runway given by ATC.When I am on the heading given (HED SEL)by ATC to intercept the localizer and I set APP, the autopilot don't capture the localizer and the plane continue on the heading given by ATC.In the two flights I make the same FMC setting and I am not able to understand the problem.Thanks for your help.Maurizio.

[jc_150 3]

Hi maurizioI have looked at the route that you planned, and I am using fsnav as my source of data. Fistly only runway 36 at LIMF has an ILS and GS, runway 18 has an ILS and BC but no problem. At LIRF there are so many runways with ILS and GS think only runway 7 has ILS and BC that it is very difficult to advise without more information. If you wanted the ILS radio to auto tune the ILS for you then you would need to tell us which runway you wanted, and what frequency did the radio page say was valid for that runway, then I could say try the flight as well and report if it captured the ILS. If you manually adjust the ILS radio frequency then you need to enter the data in the correct format and enter it into the fmc radio page, frequency/course. there are too many variablers to be able to help you right now with the data you have provided, so more is needed then can give a sensible answer hopefully.regardsJohn CallejaBAW352

[maurizio 0]

Hi John I am also using fsnav as my source data . I have made another attempt with LIMF to LIRF fly . I have had 25 runway approach from ATC and , marvellous , everything well : ILS right capture .Really happy . I havemade another attempt : ROME FIUMICINO (LIRF) to MILANO MALPENSA (LIMC).I have had runway 17L approach from ATC .I have set it in FMC ARR page and I have controlled the same set in NAVRAD ( the auto tune was correct) . I have also controlled the frequency and was the right one ( 109,9 ) . On the heading to intercept the localaizer setting APP no capture of ILS by the AP . I have made at once another attempt with the same fly . I have vad the same runway approach ( 17L ) and the same unpleasant issue : no capture of ILS by AP . I am very sorry . I am not able to understand the problem . Thanks for your help .Maurizio

[jc_150 3]

Hi again MaurizioI am glad all went well at LIRF, and you have given enough information to try your flight and report back. I cannot do the flight tonight (Wednesday) and I am working till 9 pm on Thursday, but I have a day off on Friday and will do your flight then. I will report back after the flight, unless someone else can do the flight in the mean time.regardsJohn CallejaBAW 352

[maurizio 0]

Hi John,I'm waiting . Thank you very very much.Maurizio

[cowpatz 243]

Hi Maurizio,I saw your post and conducted this flight to check it out.LIMC (Malpenso) does not have any ILS approaches in the FMC data base (I am using FS2004 data base). What you can do is select RWY 17L and then below that you will see Rwy ext and some dashed lines. This is a pilot enterable distance and it will create a waypoint on the approach segment of the rwy centreline. This will automatically tune the ILS freq if there is one. I made a 10 ml rwy ext and entered that with an intercept course to track of 171 which is the inbound course. Do you know how to do an intercept course to a waypoint? If not I can assist you if you like. When I was being vectored late downwind and turning base I checked the navrad page and it had 109.9/171 in small font and PARK next to it. This shows that the ILS is in the mark mode but that 109.9/171 is there to be enabled when it comes out of park mode. It did this shortly afterward. You can tell this because the word PARK disappears, 109.9/171 appears in large font and the LOC and GS indicators appear on the PFD. I got good vectors and it captured the ILS well. Normal operations are to Arm and capture the localiser first and then when on the localiser arm the GS.Hope this helps.CheersSteve

[maurizio 0]

He SteveI am not sure to know the right way to do an intercept course to a waypoint . If you can help me I will be very happy.Maurizio

[cowpatz 243]

Hi Maurizio,No problem glad to help. An intercept course to a waypoint is very similar to doing a direct to a way point. Here is how you do it.1. Select the legs page on the FMC.2. Select the key on the LH side of the waypoint you wish to go to or intercept a course to. This is called Line selecting.3. When you have pressed the key next to the waypoint you will see it in the scratch pad at the bottom of the screen. Make sure you have deleted anything in the scratch pad prior to this or it wont go in.4. When it is there in the scratch pad all you have to do is put it at the top of the waypoints ie. Press the left top key. When you have done this 3 things happen, First the exec key light illuminates and secondly a 'course to' will appear on the bottom right of the FMC screen. Thirdly you will see a dashed white line on your ND going from the aircrafts current position direct to this new waypoint (this dashed white line means that you are doing a modification to the active route). If you want to go direct to this point then just press the exec light. As long as you are in LNAV you will go direct to this point. If you do not want to go direct to and instead want to go to it on a prescribed course or terack to it then you will notice a 'course to' at the bottom RH side with a magnetic direction in small font. Let us say, for arguments sake, that this waypoint you want to intercept a course to is the outer marker on an ILS. You would normally enter the ILS inbound course into the scratch pad and then line select (press the RH key next to that small font magnetic bearing at the bottom right of the FMC screen). Once you have done that you will see it changes to large font. Have a look at your ND and you will see a dashed white line going to that waypoint at the bearing you have set. If you are happy with that then press the illuminated exec key. if not just enter another magnetic track of your choosing. When you press the exec key the white dashed line changes to magenta and you will see this magenta line gioing from infinity to this waypoint on the course you have entered. There will be no line between the aircraft and this point. You will have to use the heading select mode to steer the aircraft onto a suitable heading to intercept this course to the waypoint. The VNAV descent data will be as if you were going direct to the waypoint as it does not know how you are getting there so assumes you are going direct all the time. The distance read out will also assume the same logic. Have a go at a few and see how you get on.Hope this helps.CheersSteve

[maurizio 0]

Hi Steve,a question before the attempt . In the LIRF-LIMC fly , which waypoint must I select in the leg page in order to make the waypoint intercept course ? Thanks .Maurizio

[jc_150 3]

Hi MaurizioI am reading these posts from work and can tell that you are now sorted. So I don't think I need to fly the route for you now as Steve has successfully done this already. I think Steve has solved your dilemma. That is be about 10 miles out when you intercept the ILS but only press LOC button, then ensure that you are below the glide slope so the magenta diamond is high. after intercepting LOC then press APP and it will decend on the glide slope when the diamond crosses the centre of the display. I think Steve solved your problem because in two posts you said you pressed only APP to intercept loc and gs. This is not following procedure and think it is why you got the results you did. I used fsnav to look at LIMC and noticed it said gs is 2400ft at 5 nm so a good altitude would be say 3000 ft from 10 nm and you will intercept well, but LOC first then APP as Steve explained. I then looked at the approach charts for LIMC on VATSIM site and it says GS is at 3000 ft from 7.5 miles. so 3000 ft from 10nm will be fine for LIMC.regardsJohn Calleja

[maurizio 0]

Hi Steveanother complete defeat . You wrote me : " I made a 10 ml rwy ext and entered that with an intercept course to track of 171 which is inbound course " . I don't understand where you enter the intercept course , and I don't understand which way you have had to find the intercept course .Perhaps I need a step by step procedure in reference to LIMC's 17L runway .In my last attempt I have set 10 ml in the dash line under 17L and nothing else . I have seen in the leg page : discontinuity and , under , 17L171 . On the ND was shown TX17L.I have made no more thing . Turning with the ATC instruction for intercept runway 17L I set LOC . The autopilot don't captured the LOC.Be patient . I would like very very much to solve the problem.Maurizio

[maurizio 0]

Hi Jhonmreally I don't understand . Another attempt no good . I have entered runway17l in fmc and I have activate it . No more actions . In the downwind leg ( given from ATC )I have had a look to the NAVRAD page and the frequency of ILS was in large fonts ( without the "park" word )and an "A" letter beside. I was quite sure to be on the right way . When on the heading given by ATC to intercept the localizer I pressed LOC : another time the autopilot don't captured the localizer . I don't understand . Thanks for your help.Maurizio

[cowpatz 243]

Hi Maurizio,I will send you an email explaining how to do 'Direct to" and 'Intercept course to' waypoints. I did notice that after I had selected 17L with a 10 ml rwy ext at LIMC that the ILS would tune fine. I then saw that it wasnt there as I turned onto the final heading to intercept the localiser. This occurred after I had used the slew commands in FS2004 to reposition the a/c to get good screen shots. I noticed that the ILS had gone and that PARK had replaced the ILS freq and course in the NAV RAD page. Also on the PERF page the ZFW had dropped out along with fuel reserve and cruise alt. After I had put those back in I could reselect 17L and put in 10 mls again and the ILS would come back. Have you used the slew keys after you put in the rwy ext. Next time you do this approach have a look at what stage the ILS drops out (You will see the ILS LOC and G/S symbols dissapear off the PFD). By the way you can manually tune the ILS on the NAV RAD page. Just type the freq then / then the inbound ILS course (3 digits). ie. 17L at LIMC would be 109.9/171 you then press the LH key alongside where it says PARK. When you have done this it will read 109.9/171 M in large font. The M means it has been manually entered as opposed to A which is automatically.Ses how you go this time and let me know how you get on.CheersSteve

[maurizio 0]

He Steve,with your help I have made a LIRF-LIMC flight and I have performed the whole procedure you sent me .Wonderful : right capture of LOC , right capture of GS , correct landing . Really many , many THANKS .Maurizio