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Guest JTH

747 doesn't plan a long enough final

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Guest JTH

Hi everyone, I'm getting to grips with flying the excellent PMDG 744.Anyways, the problem I'm having is that when I fly a short practice flight from EINN to EIDW and select "ILS28" in the EIDW's arrivals on the DEP/APP page the plane doesn't give me nearly a long enough final. As I approach the runway from the opposite direction (basically I am flying parallel to the runway, but in the opposite direction) the FMC Legs page tells me that my next waypoint is "DUB92". Now I can see on the N/D that DUB92 is where I want to be, because it's the waypoint that extends to the end of that dotted white line that comes out from the runway on the ND - in other words it's the start of a nice ten mile final. So it's picking up the ILS and I press the APP button, BUT... the plane seems to have other ideas, as my course (the magenta line) changes to instead cause a sharp turn just after I start to pass runway 6. A white line continues to DUB92, where the plane SHOULD go, but it follows the new curved magenta line instead. I'm then lined up with the runway FAR too close to do anything about landing, and way too high (the plane tends to try and take a huge descent but has no hope of making it). So basically I'm wondering how I can instruct the plane to fly to DUB92 and line me up on a correct 10 mile final as normal?In this case I did manage to get the plane to successfully autoland by going back into the DEP/APP page before the plane reached the point where it planned to make the 180 degree turn and removing "ILS28". I turned off APP as well and just flew with VNAV and LNAV. The N/D then showed DUB92 as my last waypoint so I continued to fly there and, when I was about a mile off it and now in a good position to turn for final, I went back into DEP/APP and reselected "ILS28". I then pressed APP and sure enough the plane took a hint and landed properly.But surely it isn't normal to do this every time. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? This only seems to happen when I try to land runways and come at them from completely the wrong angle, have to fly past them and then turn back around. Thanks a lot in advance! Paul.

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Hi Paul,>Anyways, the problem I'm having is that when I fly a short>practice flight from EINN to EIDW and select "ILS28" in the>EIDW's arrivals on the DEP/APP page the plane doesn't give me>nearly a long enough final. Hmmm, who's in charge? You or the aircraft? ;-)>As I approach the runway from the>opposite direction (basically I am flying parallel to the>runway, but in the opposite direction) the FMC Legs page tells>me that my next waypoint is "DUB92". Well, this is a somewhat unusual approach with a heavy aircraft. You should try to intercept your final approach path/ILS at a nice angle of 30


Mats Johansson
PMDG Flight Test Dept
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Paul,I'd like to add some lines to Mats' answer... It seems to me that you are trying to fly something that the aircraft is not designed to do and would not be done the same way in real life.You are saying that you approach the runway from the opposite, so I suppose you are not flying a STAR or an official approach procedure for that runway. Am I correct in assuming that you are just flying from your last route waypoint to the point where the ILS should be intercepted? In that case the FMC would indeed try to "short-cut" the route as Mats is saying.Now in real life there are some different ways to approach a runway from the opposite side.1) You get vectors for a downwind leg and lined up on the ILS with vectors as well. So you are under full radar service.2) You are flying a STAR or an official approach procedure for that runway. Those procedures are layed out in a way that you can follow them precisely with an IFR equipped aircraft such as the B744. They are flown by charts and conventional IFR navigation and lead you to a convenient intercept point to the ILS. Most of those procedures can indeed be flown with LNAV engaged.3) You are cleared for a VISUAL circling or downwind leg thus you have to completely DISREGARD your map display and look out of the window and fly your own downwind and base leg.Now for point 1) you'd have to fly online at places like VATSIM to get true vectoring onto the ILS.For number 2) you'd need the corresponding IFR charts so you can fly the routes as indicated on them together with all the fancy equipment on the B744.For number 3) you have to look out and fly the downwind and base leg wide enough for the B744 to manage. Forget LNAV and the map display for this one. I think the procedures for visual circlings for the B744 are also in the manual. So decide for one of those ways of approaching a runway and enjoy the ride. As Mats said, YOU are the pilot :)Best regards,Markus


Markus Burkhard

 

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Guest lespindo

That's Right I would Look for the Published Procedure and Set My VOR/DME or NDB mode and Just Fly It !!!! (Now you need to Know what youre doing With this one! )then.... "Wow"... some more Instrument time to youre log book!!!!!!!!!!!

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You got very good replies above. I only add that this is the typical mistake that beginners make - they think that LNAV and VNAV is the sole way to fly those modern airliners. It isn't and in cases of airport/terminal approach/departure procedures pilots most often switch to other modes of controlling aircraft (manual including) - you have the whole MCP panel full of them.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/for...argo_hauler.gifhttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg


Michael J.

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Hi Paul,Markus gave you three options, I will comment on option #1. Sometimes we have to play ATC to achieve the desired result (It is not necessary to go to VATSIM etc). I assume that you are approaching EIDW from the west. descend to a height that is approximately 3000 feet above the airport elevation, but always subject to surrounding terrain considerations. At about 5 miles from EIDW go to heading select and turn right heading 130. When you are about 5 miles abeam and parallel to the runway centrline turn left heading 100. At around 15 miles east of EIDW turn left heading 310 (30 degree intercept heading). Then select APP and the rest should fall into place. This is a better option than MSFS ATC who will take you 30 miles past your destination before turning you back.Try the above and have fun.Neil

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Guest D17S

If you want to try this type of approach for a US airport, try the KLAX approach SADDE6 STAR transitioning to the ILS24R runway using the SMO (Santa Monica) transition. This is the main approach into LAX from the north. Set up a flight from San Francisco, head south and do a little west coast tour. Well worth the trip. I did a detailed outline of this approach earlier this week, so I'll just (more or less) cut an paste it here. Enjoy. ___ First, do a search for Dan Downs in the AVSIM library. He has been revising SID/STAR packages and has one all done for LAX. Pick it up and drop it into your PMDG SID/STAR directory. This will be your best bet for the most updated procedures. I often use FS Build for PMDG flight plans, but if I want something very specific, I

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"So it's picking up the ILS and I press the APP button, BUT... the plane seems to have other ideas, as my course (the magenta line) changes to instead cause a sharp turn just after I start to pass runway 6."I'm surprised the aircraft doesn't think it's flying a back course :(Don't arm your LOC until you are on a intercept course with the runway centreline (preferably less than about 120 degrees from the runway front crs).The real aircraft biases the G/S pointer out of view at track angles greater than 90degrees to the centerline... so it will be difficult to judge if you are above/below the G/S as you make your turn towards the runway centreline (after passing the aircraft). I recall, however, that in PMDG, the G/S pointer remains in view, giving you a chance to see if you are below the glidepath (for an intercept of the g/s).Remember that each computer, FCC, FMC, etc... on the real aircraft is worth a couple of hundred grand... Don't expect a $50 sim to match the fidelity of the real aircraft :( $50 won't buy you a cockpit door handle on the real aircraft ;)But I'm sure you know this already... :)Cheers.Q>

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Sam,Cactus is/was America West not Southwest. Southwest's callsign is Southwest.Other then that, great job on your post. I love flying that approach on VATSIM and love making that turn. It's nice to not have to worry about the passengers screaming at me. :)


Mike Roth

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