Using 30m Terrain Mesh? Check This Out!!

[Guest Heather 636]

http://www.fsgateway.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_I...CAT_ID=8&Topic_A simple change in the FS2002.cfg file of:TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL=21 (default is 19)gets this:http://multiplay.fsgateway.com/BA1.jpgThanks Pelbo for the enlightenment!Regards,Heather

[Guest sgreenwood]

Hi Heather, This is an useful parameter, but it does not offer much improvement with mesh constructed from source data with a resolution less than 30m, which is most of the world. :( It will have an impact on FPS, especially in areas with complex terrain (try 20 if this is a problem), but it is worth it. You can also use lower settings as well: 18, 17... These increase FPS and appearence of ruggedness (sharper peaks), but is less accurate.I posted a note on this topic some time ago, but the archives start on Mar 7, 2002, so I can't give you a link to what proved to develop into an interesting discussion. Here is the beginning of that post:----------------------------------------------Mar-03-02, 05:32 PM (EST) "Better high-res mesh rendering?"I have created some 30m LOD10 mesh recently, but was disappointed with the results in some regions. I spend a lot of time flying at low levels, and felt there were far to many angles where there should be curves in the terrain.I have been able to improve the display significantly (at least on my system!) by increasing the value of TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL from the default value of 19 to my current value of 21 (in the terrain section of fs2002.cfg). {TERRAIN} TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL=21 ...--------------------------------------------Check out my latest mesh upload: And my website has images of an artificial ridge I created to test this parameter. Pretty remarkable! [link:www.fs-traveler.com/fs-traveler.html]TMV levels demoCheers, Stevewwww.fs-traveler.comPS: Did you hear that e-bay is considering the purchase of PayPal? Interesting development.

[Dark Moment 0]

SteveA question or two on mesh ...I guess what is most frustrating for the average user is that what you gain in topographical accuracy with improved mesh, you lose in other ways as MS terrain polygons try to wrap themselves around the new contours. Cliffs look like FS5 textures, roads and rivers do peculiar things, and water sometimes goes up hills where the mesh shoreline definition differs from default. Airports are often relocated on plateaus or, occasionally, in deep valleys out of which it is impossible to fly without a powerful rotorcraft. I know these are fixable with flatten switches, but often they're found on arrival after a two hour flight!Are there any easy fixes to these kinds of problems, or do we have to live with them to enjoy bumpy stuff? Maybe MS is watching all this closely and will surprise us all in FS2004.Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/cxkaitak.htmlhttp://www.swiremariners.com/cxkaitakv3.jpg

[Justin Toposim 16]

HI Mark>Steve >Not Steve, my colleague and (now) competitor, but maybe I can answer, too . . . :-)>A question or two on mesh ... >>I guess what is most frustrating for the average user is >that what you gain in topographical accuracy with improved >mesh, you lose in other ways as MS terrain polygons try to >wrap themselves around the new contours. Cliffs look like >FS5 textures, roads and rivers do peculiar things, and water >sometimes goes up hills where the mesh shoreline definition >differs from default. Airports are often relocated on >plateaus or, occasionally, in deep valleys out of which it >is impossible to fly without a powerful rotorcraft. I know >these are fixable with flatten switches, but often they're >found on arrival after a two hour flight! >The road and river phenomenon is a result of the low-resolution (1:2,000,000) data MS used for the default. It is only accurate to within about 300m, meaning, there is a vertice about every 300 meters at this scale. This means that the shorelines at this low-res scale will appear a straight line, when in reality there maybe several little bays and such jutting in and out along this "straight" line.This phenomeneon can and will be fixed when MS releases a scenery/terrain SDK--finally. Then we will be able to utilize the 1:100,000 scale data which has a vertice about every 11 meters. As always, there will be a performance hit, but at least we'll have more accurately-placed shorelines and transportation features. Gone will be the truncated terrain where it meets the shorelines, gone will be the rivers flowing up the side of terrain, etc.Trouble is, no one has yet cracked these new types of BGL files. The data is readily available, waiting and ready to process, but MS simply hasn't let us know how to do it yet.The airports on plateaus is 99% due to FS200x in ability to depict anything but a perfectly flat runway. In real life there are very few runways that are perfectly flat. Sometimes one end of the runway is as much as 100 feet lower than the other end. The result is that one end will appear on a plateau. There is no way around this, but something we all have to live with until the ability to make an uneven runway is incorporated into FS, hopefully in the next version.There are, of course, cases where the airtport's elevation or location is just plain wrong, but most of these plateaus are a result of FS200x's flat-runway limitation.Hope this helpsJustinhttp://www.fsgenesis.com

[Dark Moment 0]

Great answers, Justin, thanks. Like your work, too!Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/cxkaitak.htmlhttp://www.swiremariners.com/cxkaitakv3.jpg

[Guest sgreenwood]

Hello Mark,I feel your pain.At least with FS2002 the roads and rivers seem to be placed on the terrain. I have not noticed any suspended in mid-air as in FS2000. Clearly we need the sim to treat the rest of the scenery the same way. The mesh elevations needs to drive the positioning of the rest of the scenery. Just as real-world elevations determine the location of real-world "scenery". It would also be nice if the sim provided a smoother transition from mesh elevations to scenery elevations; this might replace some of the cliffs with more realistic slopes and textures. This is also a problem along the borders between areas with mesh of different resolutions. We are looking forward to a new SDK, but it will probably not solve these problems.The display of small streams is very interesting. While comparing "before" and "after" screenshots of an area while testing my mesh, I noticed a small stream took obviously different courses in the two scenes - both on the default mesh side. Neither was correct, but it was encouraging to see that the course was not fixed. I can only guess that the presence of the nearby higher res mesh was influencing the course, but have not followed up on this.I am less optimistic about the larger rivers, roads, and coastlines, which locations and elevations (except for roads) do seem fixed in the sim. Fixed, in part, so they fit with their default mesh. While the SDK may allow designers to improve the rendering of small areas with replacement scenery, much as we can now use flatten switches and bgl's for the airports, these will remain very local solutions at best. I started developing mesh because none was available for southern New England. I don't think I will hold my breath waiting for my favorite islands to show up in our local lake either!And there is another issue, already noted by scenery developers. Do they design the improved scenery to work with the default mesh, or with enhanced mesh? Which mesh? Very different environments. (I propose my 30m mesh as the standard for all future scenery for the US. Maybe Microsoft will purchase it and include it in the next version. :) ) I fear we remain very dependant on the talented developers at MS and the next release of the sim for more global solutions.As for the airports, I have assembled a small toolkit for creating flatten bgl files (better than switches), available from the "Patches" page on my website. I should be able to include a customized SCASM program soon, so one can just unzip the files into a working folder, enter airport elevation and coordinates, and create the bgl directly. Now if we can enlist the aid of 20,000 simmers to repair one airport each, ...In the meantime, I recommend installing all mesh in its own directory so it can be turned off quickly and easily when necessary; when approaching now impossible airports, etc. >Maybe MS is watching all this closely and will surprise us all in FS2004.I also share your optimism!Respectfully,Stevewww.fs-traveler.com

[Dark Moment 0]

<<<>>LOL. Oh, to dream!Thanks, Steve. Appreciate your time on this answer.Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/cxkaitak.htmlhttp://www.swiremariners.com/cxkaitakv3.jpg