747 for a touch and go - how to set up FMC

[Guest kjolsnes]

Gents,How would you setup the FMC for a touch and go flight? I am doing som VFR practice but would still like to have the FMC to calculate the reference speeds for me.Would I simply leave the route empty and only use the approach and take off page?Just curious how this would have been done in real life.Thanks Kjetil O

[michal 44]

As far as the route goes - for destination use simply the origin airport, no other waypoints are necessary. Otherwise go through the normal FMC initialization and you should be set up for touch & goes. You can even select the airport's ILS (if equipped) as type of the approach and you should get ILS signal to help you fly this approach (visually/manually or AUTO) if you wish so.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/for...argo_hauler.gifhttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

[cowpatz 243]

Set up the FMC as you normally would but, as Michael said above, have the destination the same as your departure airfield on the route page.On the departures and arrivals page enter the departure runway. You may want to enter a SID or a waypoint on the legs page that will give you an initial waypoint to on the extended runway centreline. It is not necessary but will give you a magenta line to orientate on.Depart as usual. Plan to fly the circuit at flap 5/gear up (at F5 speed or 200 kts) and normal circuit height (1000 to 1500 ft AGL). When established downwind select DEP/ARR page and scroll down the approaches on the right hand side until you find runways. Enter the runway you will do your touch and go on. From here you will have a choice of selecting VFR approach or entering your own rwy extention distance. If you go for VFR approach a fix is created 8 miles out from the threshold and an airspeed and altitude constraint of 170/2000 ft above runway elevation is created and a runway altitude constarint of 50 ft(at least in the RW aircraft it does. Have yet to try in the PMDG sim). The second one, which I know does work, will enter a fix on the legs page at the distance you specified (1.0 to 25.0 miles). The beauty of this is that the ILS is automatically tuned as well. I suggest you start with say 8 miles first of all and then work down. Once you have entered all this go to the APP REF page and enter your Flap/speed settings. When late downwind and before turning base select gear down and flap 20. Aim to be about 2 miles out from the runway. Use the track display to ensure you are tracking the reciprocal of the runway. Do not set the auto brake or arm the speed brakes. On base turn select landing flap (depending on height of circuit). Having all this flap out and a lower speed will help ensure you dont overshoot the centerline. Use the trend vector on the ND to help you align with the centerline.After touchdown lower the nose onto the runway. Do not use REV thrust unless full stop. Select flap 20. Give a second or two burst of forward stab trim. Stand the thrust levers to the vertical position and ensure all engines spool up. Select TOGA. Apply thrust. Rotate at the Vref bug speed and climb out at that speed. Things will happen quickly here and it will be easy to overshoot the circuit alt height. If it all turns to custard engage an AP and use V/S to get it under control. When you are happy disconnect the AP. Retract flap to 10 and then 5 on speed. Repeat all above.Have fun.CheersSteve

[Guest kjolsnes]

Steve,Thanks a lot! You answered several of my next answers as well. What I am struggling mostly with, is the low circuit altitude. I tend to drift a lot higher when i practice on this and always end up to high on the rwy threshold... but I guess with a few hours of training it should be ok. And on most of the circuits I need some help from the Autopilot. I found that keeping level is very hard in the simulation, not sure if its like this in real life as well. Another problem is the view over the pedestal, I always have to rise mig sight a few clicks to be able to see the runway.I have seen when climbing out when doing touch and goes since my fuel is very low, that I have to increase my nose extremely high not to get the speed to accelerate to high above vref. Up to 20 degrees... guess passengers would not like that(not that they would be in the aircraft during touch and goes :-)) Would it be normal to manually reduce thrust or would you keep such a hign nose during climb to 1500ft? Would you retract and deploy gear on each circuit?And one final last question: How many hours of touch and go would a pilot get in a real airplane before checked out?CheersKjetilCold Norway

[cowpatz 243]

Hi Kjetil,The simulation is quite hard for hand flying as you have no peripheral vision ie. side vision. There is also no "G" force to give you those seat of the pants clues that you get in the RW.By all means use the autopilot at first. When you are downwind take a look at the nose attitude as a ref for next time. At Flap 5 gear up this should be about 8 degrees nose up at 250 tonnes. It pays to use flap 5 or 10 as this helps keep the speed under control and make the A/C easier to manage. Generally there is a speed restriction in the circuit of 210 kts.Quite often we will leave the gear down for one circuit especially if a full stop landing is followed by a TO. This helps keep things cool (brakes and tyres).As for viewing I find raising the seat up one setting helps with a view of the runway. Anymore and it tends to distort the natural clues you would use for the flare and hold off.We normally carry ballast fuel when doing circuits so as to make the aircraft handle more like it would on the line. Try increasing the ZFW and fuel so as to bring the all up weight to around 250 tonnes or equivalent in Lbs. This aircraft is challenging to land when it is light. This will also help reduce the nose high attitude on TO. For the touch and go after you get airborne and when thru 500 ft pull the thrust well back and lower the nose. This will make it easier to level out at circuit altitude. Kepp using the stab trim to assist keeping the nose at the attitude you want. Make sure that you have the desired speed when you do your final trimming as you trim for a speed not an attitude.Hope this helps you.CheersSteve

[Datalink 26]

Thanks Steve for your interesting information, I'll be giving this a go when I get time lolJust a quick question, how often would you take the aircraft for circuits like this, or would this be done during sim checks?

[Guest TAN]

Great ideas.Would like to add another thing that might help the position awareness. Make your circuits at 1500ft above ground level (AGL)On the Navigation Display (ND) make use of the Center Map Mode ("Rose mode") with a range showing you 5NM at the outer scale. When the runway symbol on the ND approaches the outher scale make your base turn. On base at appx. 2NM from the Rwy Ctr Line, select F30 and start inbound descending turn at 200-300ft/min. If you'd like, you can also take advantage of the Flight Path Vector (FPV) which you select on the EFIS Control Panel (ECP).For simulator circuits (on the RR engines) I would normally use 270T D-TO1 50C. On the FMC thrust setting, select a Derated (D-TO1) takeoff setting of TO1 with an assumed temperature of 50C, that should give u a moderate climb performance with an appx. EPR of 1.5+, which will give you more manageble vertical speed during climb.On the touch and goes, also use an EPR of appx. 1.50 EPR, to manage the V/S.Good luck and happy landings. Claus

[cowpatz 243]

Kjetil,Circuits are only ever done for the initial aircraft type rating. Although if the airline's simulator is "zero flight time approved" then you will never do circuits for real. I did circuits in the 747-200 but not in the -400. The first landing you do on the line is the first time you have landed the real aircraft....a bit unnerving!Normally for non zero flight time sims we do between 4 and 6 circuits and these include a combination of T&G's and full stop landings, including a non vasi approach and a high energy stop.CheersSteve

[Guest CX259]

Hey Guys, i have just tried the techniques above. However, after the first circuit, the altitude callouts are no longer there for my 2nd attempt and beyond. Is there something i am doing wrong?Tom

[Guest kjolsnes]

Gents,I have not succeeded of getting the VFR APPROAC> function to work, neither the manual entry of the extension on the __._nm line. When I select the VFR APPR> button or enter in my own extension I always get a PROGRAM ERROR or INVALID ENTRY. Does anybody else get this to work? What am I doing wrong?ThanksKjetil ONorway

[crvm 0]

>Gents,>>I have not succeeded of getting the VFR APPROAC> function to>work, neither the manual entry of the extension on the __._nm>line. When I select the VFR APPR> button or enter in my own>extension I always get a PROGRAM ERROR or INVALID ENTRY. Does>anybody else get this to work? What am I doing wrong?>>Thanks>>Kjetil O>Norway>>http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/158086.jpgBest,Randy J. Smith

[Guest kjolsnes]

I tried them but could not get them to work. I get either a program error or invalid entry.Does anybody have any luck on this that Randy describes ?Randy,Where did you get that manual from?Looks nice!regardsKjetil

[Guest snyperAL]

what an amazing thread, I've often wondered about this whole touch and go business and now it has all been cleared up in a matter of minutes by a certain cowpats??? Excellent step by step guide mister, i have printed it out and i am thinking of la inating it for when my x52 gets here for some trial runs. It'll give me something to do while waiting for the next type rating course!I am glad i subscribe to these forums cus you chaps really do know your stuff!and loosely on the subject of flight controllers do any of you fine chaps know where a fellow can purchase a cyclic / collective joystick type device for helicopter manouvers? I know flight sim isnt the best for chopper endeavours but you've cleared up one question for me maybe you can help with this little puzzler?Another thing:Do some of you pilots get bored by the beige colour scheme in r/l cockpits? or is there some variety going on depending on airline etc? The whole beige thing looks so 80's maybe its about time for a rethink? maybe PMDG would bring out some new skins for their 2d cockpit, maybe some differing shades of beige or black or beige and black combo's?Alan Mnew ish