PMDG 737 NG Procedure Turns

[beefix 2]

Is it possible to programme the FMC to carry out a reverse course procedure turn? I want to carry an ILS approach to runway 35R at KOKC, this requires a reverse course procedure turn.I have tried hand flying it, however, it's harder than it looks and I ended up in a right old pickle! I have overcome most FMC problems by reading the manual but this one has "got me beat". I would also ask the same question with regard to PMDG 747. This leads me on to my final question. Do big jets carry out procedure turns? I have done a fair bit of passenger flying and I cannot recall ever doing a procedure turn. Can anyone help.RegardsSteve HoneyLincoln UK

[Mats_J 2]

Steve,No. The procedure turn is not included in the procedure syntax for the FMS. You have to manually get something together on the CDU. ANd even if you were able to include procedure turns you would have to fly them by hand as the NG AFDS doesn't fly procedure turns automatically if my memory serves me correctly. Same restrictions apply to the 744 though I don't know the capabilities of the AFDS for automatically fly procedure turns.Hope it helps,

[Guest tmetzinger]

Well, the real NG FMC doesn't do procedure turns. But most of the time you'll get vectors to the localizer.You can "fake" the procedure turn in the FMC by entering some new waypoints relative to the final approach fix, but it's tricky. Here's what I do for a left-handed procedure turn.First waypoint is the final approach fixSecond waypoint is outbound on the localizer at 3 miles, so if the inbound course was 220, the second waypoint would be FIX040/03.Third waypoint should add 50 degrees and be 8 miles, so FIX090/08Fourth waypoint is used to make the left turn back to the localizer, FIX060/10Fifth waypoint is inbound on the localizer, FIX040/05And finally, back to the Final Approach Fix.This is off the top of my head but you can get the idea of how to program the procedure turn. The key things are to make sure you turn the right way, and remain within the specified distance.Best wishes,

[beefix 2]

Mats and TimThanks for the help. I intend to have a go at setting an approach. It will be an interesting academic exercies that will keep the old brain ticking over. I have noted that in his advanced 747 tutorial, Holger Seilz sets up a "teardrop" procedure turn for a landing at KSFO. This would seem to be a bit easier than the "fishook" turn that I want to carry out. Thanks again for your help. However, one more question. What speed do you think would appropriate for this type of turn? I hand flew at about 160 Kts, this was too fast as I overshot the 10 mile limit by a long way. In fact the whole thing was a bag of worms, but it does make you realise that flying is not always as easy as it may seem.Regards Steve

[downscc 1,327]

I have been including all charted procedure turns in my SIDSTARS procedures for several cycles now and have not received any complaints from users. Although I have not encoded OKC you may take a look at the procedures for ABQ, which has procedure turns and DME arcs. My procedure turns include fixes around the turn back to intercept the final approach course to provide a realistic track and have been tested in the 737NG between 180-210 KIAS.Handflying the procedure is not difficult, but takes practice. Simply: 1) Fly outbound about 1 min, 2)Turn left or right (as charted) 45-deg and fly that for 1 min, 3)Turn 180 deg opposite direction of number two and intercept inbound. All turns are std rate turns (<30 deg bank).My SIDSTARS are available in either AVSIM FS2004-Flight Plans or NavData libraries.

[beefix 2]

Dan Thank you for your input. I have found that hand flying the reverse turn, for me, was quite difficult, as always practice makes perfect and I will continue to practice. I have made no complaint about your procedures. You may recall that my initial question was how to set up a reverse procedure turn on the FMC. I used KOCK as an example of what I was trying to achieve. Thank you again and I have taken note of the headings and turns that you recommend.RegardsSteve

[zubart 5]

Sounds like you making this harder than it really is.You don't have to "hand fly it". I'm assuming you mean with the autopilot off.Leave the autopilot engaged. When it's time to make the procedure turn, push HDG SEL on the MCP. Rotate the HDG knob to the PT outbound heading. After 45 seconds, rotate the HDG knob in the appropriate direction 180 degrees to the PT inbound heading. Push an appropriate new lateral mode, APP, Lnav, or VOR LOC and intercept the final approach course.Good luck,Floyd

[Guest isagani67]

Good afternoon Dan,Please allow me to take this oportunity to ask your advise. You are knowledgeable on this issue.I have a problem about the AIRAC cycle & SIDSTAR updates for PMDG. Until now I have not flown in at TNCM & SBGL with my 737 & 744. The rwys are missing. I got an " err at line 24 & data incomplete" respectively on the FMC when I encode RTE/ARR and there is NO RWY available. I encoutered the same problem when I updated the SIDSTAR for EGLL once. The RWYS were missing - I just re-installed the back-up.Any solution to this issue?Thank you abd best regards,Isagani

[downscc 1,327]

Sounds like a new thread but here we go: The sidstar format has a section RNWS, which is where runways are declared. The FMC pulls the runway information (location, course, elevation & loc freq) from the airac data (.../FMCWP/NAVDATA/wpNavAPT.txt). The FMC does not use any facility data directly from FS9 as far as I can tell. Therefore, you need to verify that your procedures match the airac data. It is possible to manually update the airac data using any text editor. See my procedures for KMCO for an example. I hope I've helped.