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Guest fuzzz

STAR problem at EGSS

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Guest fuzzz

HiI've been having a complete nightmare with my STAR into EGSS. I usually do a EGPF to EGSS leg and therefore use the Lorel 3G STAR as I'm approaching from the North.However when I input this data into the FMC the route looks all wrong accoring to the STAR plate I have. It looks like its Ok up until BUSTA but instead of then doing a nice left turn to hit LOREL at 192 degrees, the route almost cuts back on itself at a very sharp angle (about 120 degress to the left)and then carrys on past LOREL and onto a fix of BKY before going back again at very obscure angle eventually to LOREL.When I actually try and fly the route on LNAV it does fine until just after starting the left turn to BUSTA. Then it will just do a sharp right hand turn until about 270 degress (approx) and then just flies straight and level and does not stop. My AIRC data is up to date (0611 cycle) and I have the latest SID/STAR data from Planepath. Has anyone else had this problem?Eitheir way, any ideas?

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The planepath procedures are encoded directly from DAFIF data (up until Oct, Terry has a new source for US-only since then):STAR LRL3G FIX MCT FIX PEDIG FIX ROGBI FIX CLIPY FIX FINMA FIX BOMBO FIX BKY FIX BUSTA TRK 221 UNTIL RADIAL 10 FROM NAVAID BPK FIX LORELThe interpretation of above is: After BUSTA fly track 221 until crossing radial 010 from BPK VOR then direct LOREL. Is this as shown on the chart?Don't get alarmed at how the navigation display appears after loading the procedure. What's important is how it flys the approach. The sharp turn after crossing BPKr010 towards LOREL is due to how it is encoded; obviously, the aircraft is going to make a arcing turn and the actual ground track is not going to be the same as initially shown on the display.Maybe a better way to encode this would be "...FIX BUSTA TRK 221 INTERCEPT 012 RADIAL FROM FIX LOREL", which would turn inbound to LOREL on a 192 track. Don't forget I don't have the chart and have no way of knowing if this is correct.Hope this helps.


Dan Downs KCRP

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Hi thereAs EGSS is my local airport I usually online finish my flights there, so have some interest in your problem. I have checked two sources of information, and that is ais.org which when you are registered for free gives all the charts for uk airports, and i also checked using fsnavigator.Although fsnavigater shows it as Lorel 2G there is no difference in the bits that you are interested in. In my opinion why there is confusion, if you go from Clippy then BKY vor, to follow the STAR to the letter there seems to be a hold built in which then takes you sharp left to Busta thne again left to Lorel, then back to BKY vor then via a couple of fixes then onto the ILS (assuming rw23) Whenever I have flown this route and been online and been vectored by a controller I have never been around that holding loop, i just get vectored Clippy BKY vor then on to a few fixes to intercept the ILS., so I am thinking that the procedure is correct, just not comfortable to fly the hold. Just for information in the hold BKY to Busta is via BKY radial 005 and Busta to Lorel follows BPK radial 010 (you head 190) so quite a loop. Can see that this is not quite what you are experiencing but I usually hand feed the fmc with the star information that i get from the charts.hope this helpsregardsJohn Calleja


John Calleja

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IRL, you probably won't be able to track 192 to LOREL after BUSTA as the turn radius will be too great.I work in the simulator at the actual center that deals with London bound traffic, and our simulator has the planes flying around about 170ish to LOREL before holding.Would it not just be easier to have BKY BUSTA LOREL to hold in the STAR route. Might not look pretty when approaching, but surely it will be redrawn as you begin the left turn and the FMC realises you won't make the straight line that will have probably been drawn between BUSTA and LOREL?


Phil Brown

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