SIDSTARS Ronald Reagan Washington National (KDCA)

[downscc 1,327]

Available either AVSIM FS2004-Flight Plans or NavData libraries...Procedures based on current (Cycle 0701) FAA Digital Terminal Information and published charts. I include ten departure routes (KDCA hasn't a published SID) for use in lieu of ATC vectors, which are based on FAA Preferred Routes and actual traffic. All (turbojet) STARs are included, and the primary ones have enumerations to provide routing to approach in lieu of ATC vectors. Approaches included ILS01, RNP19 and the Visual Charted Approach Procedures. This location is directly South of the Washington Monument, the Mall and the most restrictive airspace in the county. The lowest minima available for landing South is the RNP19 approach, which requires a 40 deg turn on short final at 500 MSL. I believe "National" is one of the most difficult locations to fly in and out of, needless to say, B737/A320 types only (no B747).

[Guest D17S]

That RNP to 19 is a lot like the old Hong Kong approach. Actually, I think that final turn is tighter and closer in. I actually got into editing that old RNP approach .txt file, trying to compensate for the horrendous skid I was getting with the 744 on that last turn. (Is that the same file we were playing with a while back?) As you suggested, little guys only. But it sure is a challenge with the 744. Can't say I EvEr got a clean final turn that rolled out right on RW heading. (Well, I might have got RW heading . . . 100 yards left or right!)Flew it for real once in a DC9 (no MD nothings in those days!). Still remember pullin' Gs in a tight turn and looking out my window, hoping that wingtip didn't clip the water. As we cranked around that corner, the bank angle (at altitude, Very low) was so steep that I had to scooch down in my seat to see the far river bank. What a ride. This one's gotta be right up there with Kai Tek.Everyone. Give this one a try!

[downscc 1,327]

Thanks for the indorsement, Sam. The RNP19 approach is not the same one as we worked with about 8 mos ago, I'm able to apply a year's experience and new techniques. For example, I'm using the FAA Digital Aeronautical Information CDROM now as the source for the fix locations, and I have put an extra fix on short final to try to tighten the FMC response to the short final. My PMDG 737-700 still misses the runway by about 200 ft, which is within the RNP error allowed.The approach minima are based on an RNP of 0.11 (max mean error that the aircraft will have from route is 668 ft), the pilot must go visual and fly hands-on from 475 MSL, which puts you between JUBOL and WIRSO approximately abeam Washington Monument. Therefore, that tight turn to final is pure pilotage. I think flying it would be like breaking out of the ceiling on a low VOR approach and finding the runway 40 deg to the right, except they usually have 600 ft minimums, this is 125 ft lower. Wow.

[Guest M-Sauce]

>My PMDG 737-700 still misses the runway by about 200>ft, which is within the RNP error allowed.You might want to try offsetting the fix from the actual runway. I've done this many times when I built simulated RNP procedures into the high elevation Chinese airports of the Tibetan plateau and I get consistent results in the 400 and the NG. What I do is make the last waypoint before the RNW entry a little offset to the runway centerline. Let me give you an example;You are designing an RNP to RWY 36. The turn to final comes in from the west. What I would do is make a waypoint about 2 or 3 miles from the threshold that is slightly east of centerline. Then I fly it and adjust it by as much as the aircraft cuts or overshoots the runway. You do need to make sure that the airport layout in the NAVData APT file is accurate. That is always my first step in designing any new procedures for an airport. Then again, I don't know if I have designed any RNPs that have turns to final that are as close as that one. I will try making that one and will attach it here if I succeed. I have flown the river visual into 19 (and 18 before the earth's mag field shifted) in my previous life, and it is definetely sporty. You'll notice most people overshoot cause they are not used to turning at such short distance. I always started a very shallow turn early and just made corrections during the turn as needed. I found it much easier than trying a last minute hard bank at low altitude. Not to mention safer since your margin to stall is reduced at steep bank angles. Mariano

[downscc 1,327]

Thanks, Mariano. This was done to get the error within RNP error limit and I left it at that. Afterall, the approach should be hand-flown below 475-ft. I don't think anyone should allow a non-precision approach to be flown below the minima coupled to the A/P. However, thanks for the suggestion...

[Guest D17S]

That'd be great. Maybe if I could see it a couple of times, I'd be able to do it myself. I added a second monitor lately. Maybe that extra peripheral vision will help. If the boss is flying, he's really gotta have a clear field of vision over junior's glareshield for that last turn. Careful not to cut too close to the Pentagon. I understand FSX has a couple of active SAM sites launch-ready if you violate restricted airspace. You think I'm kidding? (Well, you might be right) (Darn, sure will be nice to have our airplane(s) over on the X-side. Nothing like dodging SAMs final. Let the fun begin!)

[neilbradley1 2]

Sam,I have had the experience of being in the jump seat of a Cathay B744 doing the approach to Kai Tak runway 13. As yo come down the ILS toward the chequer board, it is very sobering to see the high terrain below you and to your left and the multi story buildings crowded right up the airport boundary. The turn onto runway heading is about 70 - 80 degrees and starts at about 500 feet. The thing that makes this approach so challenging is when there is a strong south westerly blowing. This means that all the way into the chequer board you have a significant tail wind, so when the turn to line up with the runway starts, the wind is moving you away to the left. This results in pilots have to increase the bank angle to make it. Problem is as you get lower the long wings of a 747 mean that the starboard wing tip is getting very close to the ground. The Cathay boys got plenty of practice and do a good job (Chep Lok must be boring), but for pilots who flew there infrequently the results were often not very pretty as I am sure most of us have seen from pictures and video clips.The KDCA RWY 19 RNP approach is interesting, but is not complicated by terrain, just the prohibited areas to the east.NeilYPAD

[Guest D17S]

I have an acquaintance that worked at Haeco. I hear stories of engine pod strikes limping back to his maintenance base . . . more than once-in-a-while. I'm told it was generally the left outboard engine of a 74X or a A340. That's just as you are describing. A final turn that rolls out left of the runway. Then a hard right yaw (crab) and a compensating left roll to slip back to the right. Bang, the left outboard engine gets a little scrapin on the ol' concrete. Heard one story where a CP went off the end into the drink. They blew the vertical stabilizer off with dynamite to clear the departure end of the runway. Guess that pokin'-up vert stab got the 35 foot obstacle a bit too close.I wish I could blame my misses on the wind (maybe I will from now on!) It doesn't look so bad from the cockpit, but that instant replay really shows what goes on. I can't get that turn down for beans either . . but boy, can I save the day! I'm really looking forward to FSX with autogen on full blast. This should be fun.