So how goes the MD-11?

[mburkhard 23]

>>Actually yes it could be done in two years, but then we'd>have>>to pay Michael and Bill who are programming that thing for a>>full time job, that would mean it couldn't be sold for 50$>>however.>>Excellent to hear about the price, $50 seems reasonable.Haha I should have known!Actually this comment was made looking at the price of the available B744. Pricing of the MD-11 has not been set.Regards,Markus

[Brian Doney 127]

Markus,"sure I do!"I'm glad, so many times these types of questions/threads don't go over very well.Look, at the end of the day, it'll be ready when it's ready. I really don't think too many people would want anything less, and am also reasonably certain that most of us understand that projects of this scale take time, sometimes far more than can even be loosely estimated.I'm also pretty sure that most of us understand that you aren't all in the back room playing poker while the MD11 collects dust, but are instead working steadily to provide an excellent simulation.I guess, if I could make any request at all to this issue, it would be that maybe PMDG could do without the "more news soon" etc. type comments. I may get jumped on for saying that, but I do honestly believe that this is one situation where ignorance is indeed bliss. For ALL involved.It was last spring/early summer, that some member of PMDG posted wishing everyone a nice summer holiday season, and to look forward to news of the MD11 as fall approached. Well, here we are fast approaching another spring, and we know little more than we did then: that the MD11 will be an outstanding product (c'mon, we knew this all along), and the new bit, that there's a chance we might not even see an FS9 version. (Note, I said chance, I obviously don't know anything for certain either way)Ya know, after re-reading the above paragraph, I feel that the FS9 decision will go along way towards quelling some of the anxiety over the product, at least for me, and I'd bet others as well. I'm not looking for an answer here, so you understand, just thinking out loud.It's funny, how wrapped up one can become in the anticipation of a new product. I've always tried my best to avoid letting this happen myself, but for some reason, the PMDG MD11 just won't let go of my imagination. OK, that's enough rambling out of me. I sincerely wish the team the best of luck with the project, and would like to thank you in advance, for giving it the PMDG treatment.

[Guest]

Frankly this thread has drifted completely from what I originally intended which was just an interest in how things are going with the MD-11 and some insight on its progress. I am not on a crusade to villify PMDG for not releasing it sooner or complaining about how long its taking. So to PMDG I apolgize for the way this thread has gone. They can take all the time in the world for all I care.

[Tabs 2,790]

Mo,Any expectation on our release dates is solely your own though... We've been absolutely clear that we don't publish release dates for precisely the reason that unforeseen things always come up during the development of any piece of software - if everyone was expecting it on a certain date and they we delayed it, we'd have a much bigger chorus of complaints than we get from not publishing release dates.

[rgamurot 1]

>I sincerely wish the>team the best of luck with the project, and would like to>thank you in advance, for giving it the PMDG treatment."The PMDG Treatment" sounds like a good catch phrase. How about putting it into something like;"Precision Manuals Development Group: Giving Every Aircraft The PMDG Treatment"or"Realism and Fun; just two services offered with the PMDG Treatment."Just a thought.Ryan GamurotLucky to live Hawai'ihttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

[rgamurot 1]

>In my opinion, it would be nice if the PMDG told us that the>MD-11 would take longer than expected, They did but not directly. They sort of said this about the same time they announce the delay with the 744.>I think tolerance and patience are key to this kind of>game.:-) Agreed! And it also helps if you have something else to preoccupy yourself with. (Like that insaine long hual flight you always wanted to try.)Ryan GamurotLucky to live Hawai'ihttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

[craig_read 43]

Hi.. me again.. (I know you'll all grown now hehe)...OK OK.. just to clear things up.. you know what's most annoying to me about this delay.. I've been scouring the internet for other planes.. as I want to "broaden my surroundings" and short of PS1.3A.. I can find NOTHING that I think has the technical content that I desire.. The only plane for me right now is the PMDG 744.. simple as that.. I'm totally blinkered to the others... and not interested in anyone other than PMDG for stuff like this.. They're the Rolls Royce of MS Air Travel.. end of story.. the others I think are a waste of time.. in my personal non-professional opinion.. BUT.. good or not.. I am spoilt.. and like variety.. Let me tell you what I mean by my losing interest in the MD-11... I look at the PMDG site.. and nothing changes.. I look again a week later nothing changes.. I look a month later.. nothing changes.. it's still got the MD-11.. "COMING SOON" hollywood thing going on.. Right now.. I never check the homepage.. because it never changes.. The only way I ever get updates is by stumbling across some in this forum.. (which I think is great.. helping people out.. sharing experiences.. fantastic stuff).. That is a problem surely? Not a lot use the forum.. I didn't for a year or so before I got into this kind of thing.. so there are a bunch of people that just miss the boat.. and that's a sale missed too.. 2700 hours is not a bad estimate on time scale here.. 4 months solid working.. and obviously it will be a lot more than that really.. the increase will be due to the stop start nature of the use of that time.. figuring out where you got to.. what on earth you did last night.. etc.. looking at your own code and not understanding it.. I do that all the time when I leave projects for a day or so.. just sit there staring at your screen trying to figure out what on earth the variable VXDDA is for..I think 747 products and upgrades.. including the FSX one.. would or will be fantastic.. a fuel planner ESPECIALLY.. everyone wants it.. you'd have customers beating your website down with their credit cards.. The 747-400ER(F) especially too.... I'd buy that the instant it came out.. no problem.. Those upgrades.. shouldn't.. be a total overhaul.. and you could make yourselves a few quid too for other projects.. ride the wave of your previous success a bit to get your next conquest funded and in full stride..I have no idea how PMDG goes about developing their products.. but how was the MD-11 done? I can understand this is a typical pain in the butt time.. with the FS9 and FSX thingy wotsit screwing things up.. But.. I'd say.. with development times of 3 years.. you'll ALWAYS have this problem.. and it is a problem.. From my engineering background (professional systems engineer and large scale complex system development engineer).. I can see a massive gaping black hole of a problem waiting to swallow you up and eat you.. FS release every 2 years.. so when do you start!? half way through one FS version and hope what you do works in the new one enough not to require too much rework!? OR.. (as I expect it's done).. first part is conducting a massive requirements capture on the specifics of the aircraft systems and drawing up how it'll work.. and then.. verifying that model and coding comes in the last two years with a platform in mind.. (but again.. WHICH ONE!?).. With a 3 year development programme it's got to be one monster headache.. or you have to be privvy to some new MSFS release info..All I am saying is.. be a teeny weeny bit more careful with the A320.. keep it quiet till you have something substantial.. Or we'll have a repeat of all those posts.. (and these perhaps)... (yes.. and mine perhaps too).. and a repeat of the comments you all make in the office about guys like me.. "Jeez.. will that guy get out my cornflakes!"..(I've started saying that.. it throws people.. you should try it hehe).. I have NO DOUBT.. the MD-11 will be superb on release.. no doubt at all.. but lack of info.. and the time.. is taking it's toll on my impatient nature (a failing I know.. and people love pointing it out to me.. especially my collegues.. bosses and gfs.. BOY do the latter love pointing it out... SO I try to keep it under control).. It's a compliment in a way that people write about it so much.. it means they want the product.. BUT.. do a bit more.. with the 744.. there is still money to be made and mileage in that one yet.. consider it please PMDG :)I tried to keep this post light hearted.. I hope I was successful.. :) I meant no dis-respect to anyone.. I'm an easy going guy.. prefer a horizontal view of the world :)..CheersCraig

[Orlaam 306]

To me, these threads are just a testament to how good PMDG planes are. We want more! LOLLook forward to the update at the end of the week. ;-)

[Guest Toledano]

I was avoiding to write here, but would be nice to leave my opinion.>In my opinion, it would be nice if the PMDG told us that the>MD-11 would take longer than expected100% agreed.It's not difficult to say that the "program" is taking more time than the expected.Same thing: "Mr." President Bush do not admit that the Planet is not heating. Was needed the ONU's mega-reunion in Paris to admit.Looks insane to compare a so complex subject with a simple computer-based simulator... but the essence of the thing must be understood.MD-11 delayed, working in 4 aircrafts at once, and a lot of promises ("we will post some upgrade next week", "soon you'll see some news"), and a lot of dissatisfied people.>Been almost a couple months since the last update, curious if>anything has changed. We close to release? Any new tidbits of>information you can divulge?The original question. The guy was curious if anything has been changed, and (obviously you'll not answer) if we are close to the release date.I recognise that I was rude. BUT MAN!! 3 1/2 years of development! And almost no information! For sure, screenshots, some technical information... but still a lack of information!!!!!I'm STILL afraid about FS9/FSX compatibility AND the release date.The Santa Claus could hear me at the end of 2007... Maybe 2008 (oops! FS11!!)... 2009... 2010 (oops! FS12!!)... =(

[virtualstuff 758]

>No comment about your calculation of needed man hours. Just>let me say, you are well well below the real number needed!>>Now... if you can wait until later this year you'll get an>amazing airplane to fly. I know the real aircraft very well,>and I know how good the PMDG MD-11 is even being still in>heavy development. So trust me, that one will be very>beautiful to fly, a great experience and an ultra steep>learning curve. It will feel great, even on a desktop>simulator.Looks more a programming from FS9 version to FSX ;-)Have fun guys,Andr

[Guest mffelicio]

>I just spoke to RSR and he will have an update for you later>this week that will explain what's going on...Again..Customers = :+ Mauricio

[Guest Steve_Park]

I too am looking forward to an update from Robert at the end of the week, however, in the mean time, we have something to play with in both FS9 and FSX...a 24.99 euro($33 USD) MD-11 was just released today, complete with FMS and two engine varints...probably not up to the standards of PMDG, but may quiet the whiners for a while.Steve Park

[B777ER 2,486]

What I noticed about all this thread and Markus's replies in particular to Craig's post was he steered way clear of if it will be available for FS9. I hate to say it but if it is FSX only..too bad, no money from me (and I imagine a bunch more of us).

[golli 0]

>What I noticed about all this thread and Markus's replies in>particular to Craig's post was he steered way clear of if it>will be available for FS9. I hate to say it but if it is FSX>only..too bad, no money from me (and I imagine a bunch more of>us).I noticed that too.I have no reservations about the quality of the MD-11, when it comes out. After all, this is PMDG we're talking about.But the far biggest issue is the FS9 thing.We are in the same spot as we were in 2001-2002. The transition period from Win98 to WinXP, when a huge CPU was the last generation of Pentium III.At the end of 2006 the industry has caught up and we have screaming CPU's that eats FS9 for breakfast.So Microsoft desides to code FSX in a way that the FS9 logic no longer applys, FSX seems to be more dependent on GPU's????The release of FSX should have been delayed until after the general release of Vista. Give people the time to transition from XP to Vista. And what is really new in FSX for the hardcore simmer?? Nothing in my view. Nothing that I did'nt have with Ultimate terrain, GE pro, FE, ASv6/WM Pro and quite a few Add-On photoreal airports!!!If the PMDG MD-11 will be FSX only, it will be another painful transition period until finally stable and flyable in FS11.If it is to be stable and flyable in FSX, it will be, because us simmers have gone out of our way and handed some $1000+ over to PC hardware retailers. And that is not the way it should be. To stay on topic, PMDG can do what they want in the PR game and I am quite sertain that the PMDG MD-11 will raise the bar yet again, but not in FSX. Golli.

[craig_read 43]

That's what I mean.. the problem with a 3 or even 4 year development cycle is.. which platform do you choose!?Assuming FS releases every even year.. 2004.. 2006.. 2008... 2010.. etc.. Where do you start? Let's say mid 2003.. then FS8 is replaced by FS9 in 2004.. you either HOPE AND PRAY.. that FS9 isn't that much different and a few tweaks here and there will sort what you have done so it can be used anyway.. or at the end of 2003.. you say "oh bugger.. I have to start most of this again as none of it is compatible..".. so you're over by 6 months.. end date is now 2007..SO you're working away.. it's all going good.. everyone loves the new platform.. you run into some mishaps here and there with technical info and things run over by 4 or 5 months.. so now you're targeting early to mid 2007.. and then.. towards the middle of 2005.. an MS representative throws you FSX code.. or some of it.. and your team thinks.. "WOW.. we can use that.. but.. we have to redesign again.. bugger.." now 6 months delay again.. 2008 is the target.. Problem is the 3 year cycle and not saying.. THIS WILL BE A FSX PRODUCT.. and standing at that.. or an FS9 product.. If the present rate of development is anything to go by.. that is the 3 year timescale... the A320 will not be an FSX product.. unless it is decided NOW.. that it will be.. regardless as to the evolution of MSFS.. (I appreciate the above is exaggerated a bit)I can completely understand this situation but.. in my experience of dealing with systems that employ evolvting technologies.. with development cycles of 30 years or so.. the problem is much more apparent.. and although PMDG is a much smaller scale I understand the problems it poses.. But the only way to beat it.. is to say.. at some point.. THAT IS IT.. this current platform is THE ONE for this product.. It doesn't mean you can't upgrade in future.. but it provides a sensible focus with which to move forward.. If you adpot this strategy.. then that point.. where that decision is made.. is perhaps an IDEAL time.. to announce the project..CheersCraigPS.. still think the 744 extras would be brilliant though :)