How can I do an a realistic Kai Tak reenactment?

[Guest LOL]

Hi ALL,I've a simple question. Can anyone tell/teach me how to go about doing an accurate and realistic Kai Tak "crazy landing" reenactment?I know the airport/runway is no longer in service, and those kind of approaches and last second 45 degree bank right onto the runway is extremely risking and requires pilot skill and finesse, but since PMDG is THE 744 simulator, I am seeking advice on this forum on how to do a KAI TAK landing. Take a look at Youtube video of this PMDG 744 landing done in FS9.

=================================Now COMPARE this with the video of an ACTUAL real life landing.

SEE the difference? In the actual real life landing, the pilot comes in at a 45 degree angle with respect to the runway, and doesn't seem to correct his aircraft until 50 feet above the ground! He banks severely to the left and gears touchdown the moment he gets the airplane aligned with the runway. How can this be flown in FS9?Is this simply a matter of getting the right kind of equipment (high quality joystick, super fast computer, etc) and obtaining skill (practice, practice, practice, etc)or is it simply not possible to do in a software such as flight simulator? ie is FS9 not 'modeled' to the level where such a feat can be performed? If however, it is possible to do in FS9/PMDG exactly what that real life pilot did (as captured on video), then how does one go about doing it? What are the visual cues on when to abruptly bank left, does he bank the 747-400 as fast and as hard as possible or is it not a full deflection? What is the approach speed, what is his angle, height, fuel load, engine settings, etc? Is there a trick to doing this? Is it easier or harder than it looks?Any information on this would help greatly.Thanks,John

[mburkhard 23]

John,unfortunately I've never flown into the real Kai Tak, however I've done this very approach in the MD-11 simulator a couple of times. Needless to say it is a fascinating approach and quite challenging, and with the MD-11 you have about 10kts more approach speed than with the B744...The difference between the two videos seems to be the wind. The one with the Korean Air looks to have a LOT of crosswind and the pilot is decrabing just before touchdown. The FS9 video does not seem to have any crosswind, however the pilot on that one is too high on approach (whatch the PAPI lights).Whatch some other Kai Tak landings and you'll see that not all of them need to decrab as much as the Korean pilot.However it is certainly possible to do the same thing if you want, just give yourself some 25 kts crosswind component coming from the right, that should do the trick :)Regards,Markus

[Guest LOL]

Thanks Markus.25kts crosswind? So I could in theory use LAND3 Full autopilot and haveit perform a 'stunt' landing like the one shown on the video?Perhaps it is more than 25kts crosswinds? The reason I ask: I have done 25kts crosswinds autoland in PMDG and the 747 never seems to decrab as much as the Korean 747 in the video. In the PMDG manual it stated the main reason the autoland cannot handle extreme crosswind landing conditions is because of the fear the outboard nacelles will strike the ground. So how can a pilot manually do a crosswind landing of this extreme nature? I mean, do it and without damaging the plane or putting it at risk?

[mburkhard 23]

John,no you can't. For a full autoland you would need an ILS approach. However the approach we are talking about is an IGS approach, so no autoland.It could have been more than 25kts I don't really know, whoever did this video neglected to read the ATIS into the camera ;)You're right, the more you decrab to bigger the chances you might hit the ground with your wingtip or nacelle. The thing is, decrab is NOT a must. You can do a crosswind landing without any decrab at all. The landing gear can handle that. Many airlines do not allow their pilots to decrab on crosswind should the runway be anything else than dry, as an example.But still, landings in extreme and gusty crosswind require a big amount of skills and experience. I've heard of cases where the first officer had to take control of the thrust so the captain could concentrate on flight controls because the wind was that bad...Regards,Markus

[G-CIVA 62]

John,If you do an advanced search of this forum you will find several posts on this subject with some tips on how to shoot the IGS 13 at Kai Tak.After following the IGS it is a purely visual approach without the use of the FD, A/T or AP (including LNAV, VNAV, LOC or G/S).You don't really want to be trying the approach as seen in the famous video clip - maybe he should have discontinued his approach and commenced a G/A at an earlier stage.Plain old seat of the pants stuff I'm afraid!!RegardsSteve B

[Manny 1,293]

Not only the x-wind. It looks like the Korean air overshot..and had to make corrections at the last minute.Manny

[tunnelcat 1]

John,I set this one up with a 22 knot crosswind with some gusting from the right. By the time I crossed the runway threshold, I was holding a generous crab to stay lined up with runway. A good set of rudder pedals is a must have item!You can use the autopilot for lining up on the localizer and glideslope but the final turn and touchdown is always hand flown, so you need to disconnect the AP and A/T before you turn. Since this is an IGA approach, the localizer and glideslope don't end up at the runway threshold.If you want a challenge, fly the entire approach by hand, all the while talking with ATC, monitoring airspeed and all the other procedures required for landing, with a good crosswind thrown in for a little white knuckle fun.Kim