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Guest cliffie1931

Which waypoints are on the right of the FMC?

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I've created a Low Altitude Airways Flight Plan (with FSNav) from Seattle's Kenmore Air Harbour to Los Angeles.I can export and enter it straight into the FMC as a Co. Route but I should learn how to enter it manually.But here's the rub. I can't figure out which of the items should be on the left and which on the right of the FMC.Under the heading "Type" there are:Fix 2 itemsISEC 29 itemsVOR/DME 7 itemsEOC 1 itemPlease.........what's the drill?Cliff

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Cliff,This question comes up a lot so I'm gonna write a big response here and create an Ops article about this:All of those things are entered on the RTE or LEGS pages. For all intents and purposes the FMC sees intersections (aka fixes) and VORs as the same thing - they're just waypoints. The left and right sides on the FMC RTE page work like this: Right side (TO column) = where you're going Left side (VIA column) = how you're getting thereSo, say I take off from my home airport in Tucson, AZ heading for Las Vegas, NV and I want to first go to the Phoenix VOR and then follow the J92 airway up to the Boulder City VOR southeast of Las Vegas:In the first line of the RTE pg 2, I'd enter PXR into the right side TO column. This will automatically fill in the left side with DIRECT, which is how I'm getting there - just a straight line from my present position. You could go through entering every single waypoint in the flightplan like this, but the FMC makes it a lot easier. Since I want to take J92 from PXR to BLD, I can just enter J92 into the next lowest spot on the left side VIA column, and then place BLD right next to it in the TO column. Now hit the LEGS page, which is a sequential list of all waypoints in the flightplan, and see what happened - all the waypoints along J92 between PXR and BLD have been automatically entered in for you. This is what makes the route page so powerful, you can enter in really long routes in a very short amount of time provided they use airways.If you go to www.flightaware.com you can see the real filed IFR route for any commercial flight in the US. You'll see a flight plan formatted like this - for example KLAX-KSFO:VTU5 RZS J501 BSR BSR2Decoded, that's telling you to fly the Ventura 5 departure, San Marcus transition out of KLAX, then join the J501 airway until the Big Sur VOR at which point you follow the Big Sur 2 arrival into KSFO. You select departures and arrivals from the DEP/ARR page.The exact procedure to set up that route, assuming we're departing 25R and landing 28R would be the following (I'm assuming you know how to do the basic FMC setup like ORIGIN and DEST on RTE pg 1, the fuel/V-speeds etc...)1. Press DEP ARR and chose KLAX DEPARTURES at the top left. Chose Runway 25R on the right side and then pick the VTU5 from the left side (you might have to hit NEXT PAGE a few times). After you select the VTU5, a list of transitions will appear below it. Select RZS.2. Go to the RTE page 2. (which is the first page that allows you to enter waypoints) You'll notice that you have VTU5 in the VIA column and RZS in the TO column next to it. The DEP/ARR page set this up for you, but it's the exact same thing as what I mentioned about airways earlier. You're going to RZS via the VTU5.3. In the VIA column below, enter J501 and enter BSR into the TO column right next to it.4. Go back to the DEP/ARR page and choose KSFO arrivals on the right. Pick the BSR2 (no transition since we're already going to be at the BSR VOR) and then choose the ILS28R approach on the right side.5. Go to the LEGS page and scan through the list of waypoints, closing up any Discontinuities that might be there.That exact same procedure is how you program 99.9% of all flightplans, whether it's a short 300 mile flight like that or one halfway around the world.

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Hello, Ryan:This brings up a relative point:I really wish someone would create an .rte or .rt2 exporter for saved FMC plans (specifically everything as departure, waypoints, destination) to FS9 format. This allows use with Radar Contact, Active Sky, and perhaps other utilities depending on the FS9 .pln format keeping everything in sychronization with the FMC database created plan especially DPs and STARS.Currently to keep synch I create in FSBuild using their SID/STAR database exporting to FS9 and PMDG FMC formats and importing as a CO_ROUTE (waypoints only) to avoid differences between the two databases.It would really be useful.On the RC support forum we get frequent queries about these discrepancies and I believe there have been inquiries here as well.Perhaps the structure of your FMC plans is available for someone to write this utility as obviously various flight plan applications write to it.Thanks for listening.

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Wow! You've sure answered my question Ryan.This is one of the pleasures of our hobby. Having Member buddies taking their time to help others with less knowledge. And the having the chalenge of absorbing and understanding the advice we've been given.Now to print and work my way through your advice without creating a serious rift between my wife and me................Thanks again Ryan.With my regards,Cliff

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Before I start working through your lesson I would appreciate clarification about the selection of airways please Ryan. How do we know which Airway to select? In my example of Seattle to Los Angeles the Flight Plan, as far as I can tell, doesn't include Airways.Do I need a map? Can I choose Airways from within Flight Simulator? How do I identify Airways in the FSNav Flight Plan?Cliff

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Hi Cliff,Being a ATPL student my self I'd like to share a little bit here.Yes, you do need a map and Jeppesen will provide you with all the maps you need.(ENR and TERM)If you don't feel like that(paying) check this out: http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/MartinDenmark

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Cliff,Like I said if it's US cities, the best thing to do is go to www.flightaware.com and hit Statistics on the menu. On that page hit IFR Route Analysis and enter the two airports. What you get is a list of the most recently used real world routings between those airports, sorted by most frequent use.For KSEA-KLAX it'sSUMMA6 SUMMA JINMO Q7 AVE SADDE6When you see two waypoints that aren't connected by an airway, like SUMMA and JINMO, that's a direct and you'll just put JINMO into the TO column after you load the SUMMA6 SID from the DEP/ARR page.Be aware too that using real world routes like these will probably require you to have your navdata reasonably up to date as the built-in FS9 database is old and might not have some of these fixes or airways. You can get that at www.navigraph.com for a small fee.As for creating routes that you can't get off flightaware, I use FSBuild2. FSNav would also work, it can display airways as well.Basically you want to look at the departures available for the airport and choose one that gets you heading in the general direction of your destination. Then look at the transition points for it and see which airways connect to those and which one's going to be best for heading toward the destination. Then look at the destination's arrivals and transitions and do the same thing, try to link them up with your enroute airway section.Use http://chartfinder.vatsim.net to look at the departures and arrivals. It should be pretty obvious at most airports which ones are to or from the direction you need. Flying on VATSIM by the way, is a really good way to get the hang of flying in a realistic way.

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"I've created a Low Altitude Airways Flight Plan (with FSNav) from Seattle's Kenmore Air Harbour to Los Angeles.I can export and enter it straight into the FMC as a Co. Route". Cliff, how do you export from FSNav to the PMDG FMC. I don't see a export function for PMDG 737. I use FSBuild for my FP and export to PMDG 737, but would also like to be able to export with FSNav. Thanks, Bob

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Here we go Bob....1 Click on the FSNav site of http://www.fsnavigator.com/download.htm2 Under the heading "Freeware Flight Plan Export Module" you'll find a link reading "fsnav-export-Ids767-V2.zip"That the one you want. Enjoy!Cliff

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Thanks Cliff, that will do it. Bob

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