FS9 747-400 bonus pack

[cavaricooper 2,613]

Dear PMDG:The simple entry of fuel by highlighting the amount and typing in a new one, does not work as well.I understand this was a 1 week "bonus" and it is greatly appreciated. What I do not understand is Lefteris' post that there will be no more effort expended on this.PMDG has always been an honorable, decent company- I do not expect that will change. Please reassure your clients that you will come through for us, and fix BOTH releases- to fully deliver on your advertised product. To simply dismiss as large a percentage of the advertised changes as a "typo" is unacceptable!To quote Sir Henry Rolls, "Do one thing, and do it well". I would offer that with the current timeline, a delay to correct your 400X product before "moving on" to the MD-11 would be time well spent.Respectfully,Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png

[lefteris 70]

Carl-it's not a "want" issue - it's a "have time" issue. There are specific technical reasons why those items have not been addressed in the FS9 version and will not be addressed further.What you request is not a "fix" issue, it's just a "further functionality" - nothing's broken, it's just not working as easily as expected (compared to the FSX version). Life must go on, though, so it will :-).

[cavaricooper 2,613]

Dear PMDG:Reading the release notes and several postings on this forum, I purchased the 400X with the primary motivation of being able to apply fixes to the FS9 version. Now, I find there are issues with the 400X updates porting over to the FS9 version. Additionally-1) The EGT display stops at 200 so there's no more watching them run down2) I am experiencing the callout issues as well. Also, the Vr and V2 did not display on 2 successive flights (each time the other V speeds were visible)3) Ground Power was not instantly available unchecking and re-checking and applying the GP available box.4) Still no idea how to shut off the FO's displays.THEN- I read this post from Lefteris- "there will be absolutely no further update to the FS9 747-400 bonus pack. We're moving forward to our new development targets, which deserve our full attention now.Depending on whether the readme gives the wrong impression, we might find a couple minutes to correct the text, though ."THEN- I went to the read-me and read the following which I include for convenient reference- this is from your read-me file installed with the FS9 update-CHANGE LIST FOR FS9 VERSION:============================*NOTE: The primary purpose for this update is to give bring some of the fixes and efficiency updates that are native to the FSX 747-400 version. Some of the FSX specific behaviors, such as animations, special effects and certain lighting effects are not present in the FS9 version because they are not native to the FS9 environment. The list below has been modified from the FSX version to include only those updates and behaviors that should reasonably appear within FS9. We have provided this update as a service to those loyal customers who have purchased both products, as we wish you to have the most enjoyment of the PMDG 747-400 product line on both platforms! Thank you for your support!1) Allowed user selectiable optimization to show/hide VC F/O display gauges depending upon user preference.2) Improved takeoff trim display gauge clarity3) Change in Lower EICAS ENG page automatic display logic (only when fuel set to CUTOFF in flight)4) Correction in Spoiler handle position detection logic to improve response and correct control.5) GPWS code to allow disabling of specific altitudes depending on configuration6) "Approaching Minimums" callout added7) Fuel add/remove logic improved to allow user to directly type entry of fuel quantity in PMDG Options menu.8) EICAS Target N1 / Ref N1 indications removed when in REV mode9) Reversers logic altered to prevent REV lockout when NAI active.10) Modified Cost Index Equation: The equation is a differential equation solved by succesive iterations. This is a very CPU intensive operation. The element of the numerical procedure has been optimised, yielding a factor of 5 speed up with minimal effect on result accuracy, thus reducing the required load on the CPU for the mathematics involved.11) CDU Legs page - predicted Alt Improvements: Above / Below type (e.g. 6000A8000B) soft constraint both vertical flight path prediction and VNAV mode bug corrections and predictive improvements. Also UNABLE NEXT ALT message will appear in all cases refering to soft altitude constraints. 12) CDU N1 page - flight phase improvements: Regular thrust limit page (instead of TO limit page) will appear now below flap retraction altitude.13) CDU Fix page - changes to RAD/DIS to be BRG/DIS14) CDU Cruise page - change in step alt code: At 2R the last step altitude target would not appear when step climb was not apossible. It does now above the NONE header.15) FMC: Various small and large behavior corrections. 16) GA thrust limit will automatically be set now only if ToD is sequenced and flaps are out (or GS is captured as before)17) Retuned the entire pitch channel of the autopilot specifically to enhance behavior. This includes all related pitch modes (VS, FLCH etc). The main target was to improve mode stability even at high simrates and in connection to idiosynchratic FS9 "real" weather handling. The pitch channel in some places was enhanced with a secondary control routine to improve effectiveness in pitch sensitive roles such as glideslope tracking.18) Various cosmetic changes to CDU display and text handling.19) Adaptive refresh rate control for CRTs / LCDs based on target and actual frame rate (order is PFD, ND, EICAS, sby instruments)20) Numerous performance optimizations of display and computational code to reduce processor load on FS9.21) Various other assorted minor fixes along the way.22) Improved wing flex and wing flight path distortion modeling.Please clarify- I bought the 400X and applied the FS9 update, resulting in new issues that need to be rectified- will this not occur?Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png

[cavaricooper 2,613]

>Carl->>it's not a "want" issue - it's a "have time" issue. There are>specific technical reasons why those items have not been>addressed in the FS9 version and will not be addressed>further.>>What you request is not a "fix" issue, it's just a "further>functionality" - nothing's broken, it's just not working as>easily as expected (compared to the FSX version). Life must go>on, though, so it will :-).Lefteris:With respect, it ought to be a "want" issue, and a "we MUST make time for this" issue for PMDG. Your company's reputation has been firmly established on a policy of providing superior products to a niche market. This time, the release does not provide the advertised promise- there is simply no other way to correctly say this. Based on your company's advertisings/postings- the FS9 bonus and the FSX issue BOTH HAVE SIGNIFICANT RELEASE ISSUES- IT IS BROKEN!My concern is not that the release has issues- that is a simple matter that CAN BE FIXED. My concern is that we have not heard that PMDG will work on the issues presented AND CORRECT them with an appropriate fix.Yes, it is a BONUS pack for those that paid for FSX. However, it was ADVERTISED as part of the deal (and the primary reason I, and probably a few others, bought and paid for this release). The language is VERY CLEAR and not at all misunderstood. Please review the read me and the initial announcement postings and you will see that there really is no confusion about what the "FS9 BONUS" claims to do for the FS9 verison of the 400/400F.That said, I respectfully request that this issue be made a top priority for management discussion. Obviously you have no choice but to release a fix for the FSX version- I offer, that in an ethical business culture (which PMDG has envinced itself as over and over again) you simply cannot, as a company, just chose to ignore your customers flying FS9 (your own market research showed it to be an important market).All that said, again, I believe in the integrity of your company and remain optimistic.Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png

[TheDanger 182]

Carl, ask for a refund. You have been sold a product that not only does not work as advertised but are being told by the developers that they will not fix it.Look around on the other forums , not very many happy people at the moment.Graham

[TheDanger 182]

>Carl->>>What you request is not a "fix" issue, it's just a "further>functionality" - nothing's broken, it's just not working as>easily as expected (compared to the FSX version). Life must go>on, though, so it will :-).Then why bother including them if they dont work properly. Did you not think that it would only drive people mad?It would have been a lot simpler to have left them out if they didnt work as well as in FSXGraham

[ANA2527 2]

You guys are missing their point...they got our money and they own the 747 market. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I'm just happy they aren't charging us to view their web site (I'm sure if they could, they would). Their days at the top are limited and they must make all the money they can before someone else comes along that's user friendly and takes over. I understand that business practice. I just wish they were friendlier and tried helping those who paid this month's house mortgage for them. Someday, when they're not on top, they'll realise they need us, the consumer. I'm sure this thread will be deleted just as the others have that had anything negative to say. My two cents,Mike

[cavaricooper 2,613]

Guys-Please do not for one moment think that I feel PMDG will act dishonorably in any way. They have never given us cause to feel that way.They are at the end of a release cycle, are no doubt tired, and have to be a bit disappointed with all the issues and problems generated by their DUAL platform release. I'm sure that with their 18 month delay, they were hoping for a smoother transition.Everyone is a bit tired and a lot deflated. We are, because its not all we thought it would be (right out of the gate). They are, because its not all they thought it would be (right out of the gate). But, both groups know it can, and will!Again, they are decent honorable men, with a repeated track record of superb, faithful simulations. They are all preparing for the world's largest gathering of simmers, with a less than favorable climate after their greatly anticipated release.Give them the time they need to rest and refresh- they WILL DO THE RIGHT THING- wait and see!Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png

[cavaricooper 2,613]

Oh- btw, I don't want a refund- I just want the old girl to work correctly- that's it.Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png

[lefteris 70]

Carl-you do NOT understand:The FS9 product is a complete package. We never said we'd be updating it further. We said, in fact, that we wouldn't, as we focused primarily on the FSX product. It's your opinion that, because you can't enter fuel directly via text in the fuel box, it's incomplete. That's YOUR opinion only, though. My opinion is that FS9 is incomplete because it doesn't offer cloud precipitation to the developer. Who's right? Who's wrong?When we released the FSX product, we decided (as a bonus to our loyal customers) to throw in an unexpected, unpublicized bonus pack with those changes that COULD make it into the FS9 product. We could very well have left that out entirely, not touching the FS9 product at all. Would we have received complaints? Probably not - except from those who want to complain on everything they get.We made a simple mistake, including items in the FS9 "readme" file that were from the FSX product line. We are in the process of clarifying this and you should receive a new Readme file soon which will say which items we did touch for FS9 (the ones we could). Do you *seriously* believe that we could (easily) have inserted the others and, due to some masochistic last-minute inner feeling, we left them out to annoy you?The FS9 product is done. We're not going to be updating it. The FSX product will receive an update soon, to fix the small issues reported by some people in the forum and through our support.Hopefully, we'll put this thread to bed and I won't have to delete it - I am already seeing people crossing the line where respect is lost (not you, Carl).

[Tabs 2,790]

Guys,Part of the *FSX* release notes were pasted into the FS9 updater's readme. Most of the things listed there are IMPOSSIBLE to even do in FS9. What the updater does is give you the same gauge functionality that the FSX version has. It was a mistake pasting those in there and we did not mean to "advertise" that the FS9 400 was now identical to the FSX one in every way, nor is that even what it said. This was *not* marketed as an FS9 update, it is the 747-400X for FSX. The bonus updater is just that, a bonus - it's not part of the 400X product. The price would have been exactly the same with or without it and in fact it didn't even exist until one of us said a week before release "Hey I bet they'd like this" and we did it.We tried to do something as a nice freebie here and you guys have done nothing but jump down our throats about it since the night of the release. Can you understand why this frustrates us to read these things?Mike - I'm seriously laughing at that house mortgage comment - I've got news for you if you think we're all getting rich off Flight Simulator addons. All of us have primary jobs that are not this.

[cavaricooper 2,613]

Ryan:If you are now simply saying that all the postings about the FS9 bonus pack release were simply a huge mistake due to a "cut and paste" error, all I can say is, "Wow! Time to hire someone else to proof your stuff, guys!"Yes, I can understand why this sort of stuff frustrates you to read. Do you, however, understand that we too are a bit frustrated? On the EGT display for example- why in the world does it not now run down past 200? How can you nonchalantly say that this is acceptable and that we should now just live with it?What are the effects of an uninstall (removing the FS9 update)? Is there any fall-out from just uninstalling- registry issues, etc?Yes, I realize you were trying to do something nice. Unfortunately, after 18 months of delays, all in order to get it right, it wasn't quite right....and now when we ask for it to be rectified.....what are we told? Sorry Ryan, while I do not for a moment think you guys are paying your monthly mortgages with this stuff, I do not for a moment think this is an appropriate response from a very appropriate organization!I cannot try to make this any clearer- NO, I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM with the release having bugs. YES, I DO HAVE A PROBLEM being told- Too Bad! You have what you have- that's it!I remain optimistic- PMDG will take responsibility and do the right thing- provide what it advertised- as it always has!Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png

[cavaricooper 2,613]

Lefteris:I just read your post and am digesting it.......I have been most respectful and would appreciate your continuing this discourse- surely we customers are worth at least that?Deleting this thread would not be ethical, IMHO.Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png

[cavaricooper 2,613]

Ok:I do not want to be part of any PMDG bashing. My feelings on the FS9 Bonus Pack matter are clear. PMDG's response also seems to be clear and unchanging. I suppose we must agree to disagree.The fact that these people have worked incredibly hard to deliver something special to us all cannot be ignored. I fear that in my fervor for perfection, I may have appeared less than grateful to an organization that is responsible for much of my relaxational activity. For that, I apologize.I remain, as ever,Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Carl-The primary goal in updating the FS9 version was to bring some of the mathematical optimizations that were necessary for the FSX version. We like to keep things clean- and when we found some efficiencies, we felt that it would be of benefit to our FSX customers to provide them at no cost.Since we were digging into the FS9 version, we found that there were a few things we could easily update to keep them unified with the FSX version.When this discussion was initially brought forward internally, this team was very evenly split. We unanimously felt that FSX customers would benefit from having their FS9 version updated, but the conversation came back to "if we give them this, then there will be the inevitable demand for more- and we simply aren't in a position to do more."As I have watched this conversation thread (and a few others far less civilized) unfold, I have found myself experiencing the very un-natural feeling wishing that we had simply stuck to the centerline and not updated the FS9 version as a friendly courtesy to our most loyal customers.At PMDG we have always put our customers right into the middle of our decision making- and very many of the good ideas that we incorporate into our products come from discussions within this forum. At the end of the day, PMDG is a for-profit entity and I cannot apologize for making business decisions when it comes to the time and energies of our development team. We need to keep making forward progress on the PMDG MD-11 and the PMDG 737NG2.0 if we are to remain viable.We have been working on the 747-400 product line in two different versions since August of 2003. During this time we have updated the product numerous times, and provide a personal, direct presence in this forum communicating with all of our customers.For this reason, I also do not feel compelled to apologize to those who have attacked us as "not supporting our customers" or "not supporting our products" or "greedy" because we elected to include a free update for customers loyal enough to purchase both versions of this product.I think that PMDG has always worked to find a good balance between the cost of what we provide and the clear goal of improving our product line as we move forward.We take a significant amount of abuse for mostly imagined demons, and that has not restrained our enthusiasm for giving the community the finest simulation products you can buy.Thank you for engaging this conversation in a level headed manner- it is my hope that some others will read this thread and realize that in spite of the fact that you don't agree with our position on some of the topics- the conversation is civil- and many of us on the team have participated.Unfortunately- some folks have a tendency to resort to screaming and personal insults- and those are the conversations in which we will not include ourselves.At any rate- the MD-11 is coming- and we continue to work heartily in that direction- while continuing to update this product on an as needed, as-can basis. You really can't ask for much more than that!