Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Guest Takechan

Question regarding autoland3

Recommended Posts

Guest Takechan

Thanks for all the advice and explainations. I know there are a lot of things I haven't gone through yet, but I thought I would keep it simple for starters and add more things along the way. I'll investigate about adding more details to the approach. Note: I'll have a look at the type rating courses again. Although the attached savegames appeared to be FS9 i'll figure out something.Thanks again!- Takenobu Tou

Share this post


Link to post

After about 1500 hrs on the 744 , I had another first . . .NO failures programmed!After eng start etc and taxiing to rnwy I noticed a yellow warning> NO LAND 3The book says :Determine cause - correct as desiredAny explanation and hints for correction ?Karl-Heinz - EDDI/THF " Tempelhof "" The mother of all airports " - Sir Norman Fosterhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Takechan

So I read the Type Rating Course IV which covered some SID/STAR. I only have two questions then:1) When I look up KLAX on airnav.com I find a lot of SID and STAR charts where PARADISE FOUR is just one of many. If i'm flying alone with no ATC or just with the AI, do I just pick one SID for take-off on the runway I want to use and a STAR matching the rwy where I want to land? I just want to know how pilots know which SID/STAR to use :)2) When I plot in all the information from the STAR and follow the course down, do I just manually plot in the fixes from the IAP chart? Before I used the DEP/ARR and selected a runway, but when I did that it'd put in a lot of fixes by itself. I couldn't understand from what I read from the type rating course (IV) if I was supposed to use the DEP/ARR or not. I'll try to boil it down (i'm obviously not good at explaining things) - should I use the DEP/ARR to select a runway or just plot it in manually from the information I get from the STAR and IAP?I came to think about this after Don said I selected an ILS on the DEP/ARR instead of selecting a runway.Finally, when I look at IAP charts for say KLAX there are 3-4 types: ILS or LOC / ILS RWY (CAT I-III) / RNAV (GPS) etc. Usually I print out the ILS RWY charts, but I see they've printed out the ILS or LOC for the type rating course 4. Do you use a special set for when using STAR?Ok that was more than two questions - Thanks!- Takenobu Tou

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Takechan

I couldn't edit my previous post so I created a new one.I think i'll follow the long haul tutorial I dug up on the PMDG OPS site, so i'm sure i'll have all my questions answered there!

Share this post


Link to post
Guest jumbojock

Taxying out? All the aircraft is telling you is that it doesn't have the necessary redundancy for triple channel autoland. There are many things that could cause this from ILS failures to electrical problems. From a flight sim point of view I don't know how to sort this out other than making sure you went through your start up procedure to the letter and making sure that there are no failures programmed in either MSFS and PMDG. Hope that helps.David "jumbojock" Robertson

Share this post


Link to post
Guest jumbojock

1) One of the first things the pilot will listen to when first in the seat is the ATIS (either that or receive it through ACARS). This will tell him which RW is in use. Sometime during the FMS set up before departure, they will contact ATC for departure clearance, which will issue the necessary SID dependant on which RW is in use and which airway the aircraft will be following. As you're flying with no ATC, you determine the RW and select the SID from the DEP/ARR page(s).(Note: unless it's a very short sector (LHR-CDG) the arrival at the other end will not normally be selected prior to departure.)2) When selecting an arrival, 99 times out of 100 you'll be selecting an approach, not a RW, for arrival. Pilots will be assigned a STAR again dependant on direction of arrival and RW in use. This may change several times in the decent in the real world, and so a friend of mine came up with the reminder, "Why me?" or Y-M-E.a. Look at the buttons on the FMS CDU, and pick out the DEP/ARR, LEGS, NAV RAD and INIT REF buttons. They form a Y.b. To set yourself up for an arrival, first select the DEP ARR page; from there select an approach using the right hand select keys (eg ILS RW 08), then a transition underneath if it has one, then a STAR from the left hand list.c. Before executing, select LEGS and make sure that the whole approach agrees with the published STAR. When you're happy, press the EXEC key. This answers your question about building an approach - you shouldn't be doing that if your sim nav database agrees with your printed material.d. Now select/pre-select the navigation aids required for the arrival. Note: the ILS should already have been selected by the FMS.e. Press the INIT REF button. The approach page should already be there; select your Vref depending on which flap setting you're using.f. Finally, make any MCP (the M) and EFIS (E) selections you might require. Eg you might be in Heading Select whilst changing the runways and forget to go back into LNAV for the arrival.On your last point, and going back to what I said earlier, your STAR and approach should dovetail together, ie you won't get an easterly STAR for a westerly runway.Phew!David "jumbojock" Robertson

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Takechan

Hi DavidThanks for answering all my questions. This certainly cleared everything up! First I was intimidated by looking at the SID/STAR's heh. I'll go over it a few times, and with the tutorial in hand and all the good things everyone has written down here it can't (shouldn't) go wrong :)Note I saw from the long haul tutorial you could set up the FMC to do a HOLD, how cool is that. I'm getting more and more surprised with all the "little" things they've put into it. That's all for now!- Takenobu Tou

Share this post


Link to post

Assuming you're looking at my EGLL to KLAX tutorial, there is a lot of information in there but it doesn't go into a lot of detail regarding nav aids for the approach and also how to interpret the charts. I am going to be working on a revised version which will include everything, including much more detailed planning and weather..SIDs and STARs are a very important part of IFR flight. The SID is the departure procedure and the STAR is the arrival. Pilots will have an idea of which SID and STAR they will be using based on their route, and also the weather conditions at the airfields...If your route departs north, and the wind is east to west, chances are it'll be a BUZAD departure from Heathrow, if it's west to east, WOBUN... There are different variations of these depending on the exact runway you're taking off from, WOBUN has 2 variations, corresponding to Heathrows 27L and 27R runways. In the office, pilots will get their routing information, the predicted weather at the field and more than likely it will be done for them, but an appropriate SID selected based on the weather and the stand position. If you're on the south side of Heathrow, you'll probably favour a 27L departure for example, it means you don't cross runways and it means a short taxi time. To taxi to 27R, you'd have to cross 27L (which will be busy) and also taxi right across the airfield. All these factors are taken into account. So before boarding, and getting clearance, Pilots will probably have programmed their expected and filed departure. They'll be able to quickly change this though if ATC cannot meet their requirement for one reason or another. Shouldn't take a more than a few minutes, easy to do at the stand before the push.. You could even change it while taxiing to your assigned runway. Essentially, before even boarding the crew will have an accurate picture of weather, alt setting, SID, weight well before they get to the stage they need clearance.. Nothing in the clearance should be a big shock..Same goes for the STAR, these will more than likely be pre-planned, but probably not entered, especially for long haul, weather can change unexpectedly at times making that effort a waste of time. But the crew will have a good idea what to expect and their plan will reflect this. ACARS will keep the crew up to date with respect to destination weather, active runways, and as they get closer they'll refine their expectations.. Not only will the crew do this for the destination, but also for all the alternates on route. Sometimes utilising the RTE2 function of the FMC to programme in the expected STAR for the current alternate airfield to save time in an emergency.As they approach, ATIS for the field will confirm their expectations, their stand will probably to some extent dictate their landing runway, which they'll have thought of... again.. by the time they get their approach clearance it shouldn't be too much of a surprise.. Even the taxi is considered before landing in most cases.. If you watch the Virgin 19 DVD.. you'll notice Alan discussing the taxi during the approach... Saying what exit he expects tower to ask them to use.. and the route to their stand.. which by now will be confirmed.Not sure if that's too much information, but I wanted to make sure that you appreciate in the real world these things are very calculated.. everything is planned and co-ordinated.. At an airfield like Heathrow, it needs to be!CheersCraigPS - Definitely, fly the EGLL to KLAX.. I am sure you will learn a LOT.. it's well worth it.. that's what I wrote it for.. Even if your flights are a little different, it should give you the knowledge to be able to do handle the aircraft properly on your own.


Craig Read, EGLL

Share this post


Link to post

Hi David,I know what it means . . .On each flight since almost 3 years I follow the same procedures and check-lists - NEVER EVER this came up before !In the book for other failures and warnings it says :DO THIS or THAT - but here nothing . . .Will see if it comes up again.Karl-Heinz - EDDI/THF " Tempelhof "" The mother of all airports " - Sir Norman Fosterhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Takechan

Hi CraigAh, thanks for clearing all my questions up :)You certainly put in a tremendous amount of work into the tutorial! With all the screenshots and all. I was very very interesting reading all the explainations about what the various buttons/selectors/knobs etc. actually do - i'm used to going through the normal procedures list, but i've never really knew exactly what the various things did. It was really nice to see how you used all the systems at the various points of the flight, so i'll definently go through the tutorial (I "only" read the entire thing yesterday). I only have one question though:I saw the tutorial was based on the PMDG 747-400 for FS9 so the .FLT and .WX won't work with FSX will it? I assume I can load the .rte into my FMC. As for panel states I can just use the cold and dark that came with the FSX PMDG right? Meaning with FSX I can just load the game and put the B744 where it should be at EGLL, and load the panel state (cold and dark from FSX) and load the .rte into the FMC?- Takenobu Tou

Share this post


Link to post

Yes.. the .rte files can be transfered... Like I said.. the whole idea of the tutorial is to give you the background information to make informed decisions really about what you're doing.. As far as the flight files go, they're not that important really.. you'll just find the start is slightly different and you'll need to check your weights... other than it should be fairly straight forward..So yes simply fire up FSX and you should be able to configure and go.. Give it a go.. if you find something is tricky.. just keep trying.. you'll get there in the end..CheersCraig


Craig Read, EGLL

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Takechan

Thanks - it's usually much more fun when I have a general idea about what's going to happend.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Takechan

So i'm 3 hours into my flight from EGLL to KLAX, the first 40 min in prep went down the drain as an AI taxied into me (I had disabled collision at one point though) so I had to redo it again. Now i'm sitting nicely at FL320 waiting for the next step to FL340. I haven't been able to do all the things mentioned in the tutorial as I want to avoid pausing too much, so I think i'll spend some time now preparing for the descent. I have tons of time :D

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Takechan

I completed the flight from EGLL to KLAX, I only had to do minor changes as there weren't many of the fixes for the approach in the FMC, so I had to change to PDZ STAR and landed on another runway. Phew that was the longest flight ever (11 hours 23 minutes) and probably the only really successful :D.A great tutorial now i'll look up PMDG OPS and read up on the flight planner section so I can fly some other long hauls!- Takenobu Tou

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
×
×
  • Create New...