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Vic1

2 very strange issues 747 x

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I am haveing 2 problems with the 747 x latest version. I cant see any post here suggesting anyone else is having the same problems so i have tried a clean re install of the product but still the same result.problem 1this is somthing that i think i was aware of before the last patch regarding heading select autopilot mode. i noticed that during any adjustments that i make to the heading select button on the MCP the yokes would shake eraticaly as long as i held the mouse clicked over it and the bug is moving left or right . as soon as i relesed the hdg button the shaking ceases. If i make adjustment to the heading before the aircraft has reached it full banking angle , the shaking would affect the stability of the aircraft too causing the whole plane to shake with the yokes naturaly, also the aircraft would almost stop continiung to reach its full bank angle untill the heading bug is released. as soon as i stop adjusting normal behaviour is resumedsomething to do with the heading bug adjustment is interfearing with the smoothness of the banking and the yokes. i wondered if there is some kind of cammand conflict occuring here with left and right mouse clicks . i have fs2creww installed for the 747 x aswell but the problem persisted even after i uninstalled that. i have disconected my joystick tried a new mouse in case these were interfearing but no changeProblem 2this concerns the selection of a star in the fmc. If i select any star prior to approach and execute it causes havoc with the flight plan causing legs pages to appear again that have long since been passed and the aircraft tries to turn back 180 degrees and fly the waypoints again. This happens each end every time , i have been forced to select heading hold and delete all the passed waypoints in order resume lnav Somthing is very wrong here , i dont want to say its a bug or two because everyone would have seen the same behaviour so im lost as what could be the causeif anyone has any suggestions or has seen the same thing please let me knowthankskav

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I only hope to help with problem 2: If you are selecting a STAR before approach then maybe you are selecting too late? Most STARs provide a route that begins more than 40 nm from the aiport and transitions that may be hundreds of miles away. The STAR should be selected either during preflight or while enroute, normally before you start the descent.Maybe an example so we've got some specifics to talk about would help.

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thanks but i do infact select the star before the decent , i just did not make it very clear. This is occuring hundreds of miles from the destination. it tries to load past waypoints from hundreds of miles back already flown over in lnav . pages in the fmc that have already dissapeared re appear, and tries to return to them as if they are the currant pagekav

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i may add that the fmc problem has only started since the update. the hdg select issues have been there previously as far as i can recall. I have flown the 747 since it came out ,hundreds and hundreds of hours flown and never seen the fmc problem before.kav

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Give us specifics to see if the problem can be duplicated or at least figured out. What is the active flight plan and what is the star and destination and where on the flight plan is the star selected. I want to give it a try.Almost forgot, what is the navdata cycle you are using?

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Thankyou well there have been many flight where i have had this but the latest was egkk to vhhhEGKK UL620 ARNEM UG9 ETEBO UL980 PENEK UM994 DRE UN858 VTB FK UM DCT BP DCT VINLI DCT RW DCT DAKLO DCT SF R480 RP R488 OK A300 HJ R481 DT G351 MGR G351 GUBER ABULA G111 ATBAN G111 AST A369 KRG A368 SARIN A368 FKG B215 CHW YBL B330 JTA JTG ESNIB XYO/K0908S1260 B330 POU R473 vhhh(i had the same issue on the vhhh to egkk flight to same routeVHHH R473 POU B330 XYO/K0908S1260 ESNIB JTG JTA B330 YBL CHW B215 FKG A368 SARIN A368 KRG A369 AST G111 ATBAN G111 ABULA GUBER G351 MGR G351 DT R481 HJ A300 OK R488 RP R480 SF DCT DAKLO DCT RW DCT VINLI DCT BP DCT UM FK VTB UN858 DRE UM994 PENEK UL980 ETEBO UG9 ARNEM UL620 EGKK)i was at fl360 enroute to vhhh from egkk approaching waypoint XYO,on airway B330, i selected ils07r with transition Guava, pressed execute and the aircraft tried to turn 180 and head for waypoint JTA which had already long gonethis will be hard to replicate as without flying the entire route you will have to create a direct to this waypoint deleting all the rest and then then this issue will not happen kav

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nav data cycle 08 05kav

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i used fsbuild to create this plan tookav

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<>Sorry, still need help understanding. Is your example VHHH-EGKK or the other way? What is the star you select (ils07r is an approach, not star)? For example, STAR ASTR1A starts at fix ASTRA FIX MELON 15000 SPEED 250 FIX TD then FIX GUAVA for either RNW 07L RNW 07R, where you pickup the ILS from Guava. The above flightplan to VHHH is just an airway from POU to VHHH... along the way you should have a fix that joins the STAR, but I don't see it. R473 goes from POU to SIERA via VIBOS and ZUH... so I don't see how your flight plan is supposed to be getting you to VHHH.I assume you don't have disconnects in the plan... sorry, I'm confused.

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egkk to vhhhno dicontinuities the above plan is all i paste in to fsbuild to create the .pln. this plan seems to work. I dont think it is nesessecary to enter all the points of an airway just the entry and exit fixes. I did not include the star here as the issue occured before i had selected one, this has not been the case on other flights in this case the problem occured simply after i selected the runway and transit fix. before i had selected a star, sorry should have been more clear." was at fl360 enroute to vhhh from egkk approaching waypoint XYO,on airway B330, i selected ils07r with transition Guava, pressed execute and the aircraft tried to turn 180 and head for waypoint JTA which had already long gone" that is what i didkav

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Kav: You are right, you don't have to enter all the points of an airway just the entry and exit fixes... that's the problem I see at POU R473 VHHH. As I mentioned, VHHH is not a fix on airway 473. So your plan is to join R473 at POU but no where do you indicate where to get off the airway and join the STAR or approach.I use FSBuild too, but only for the enroute. I always delete the imported departure and arrival segments and enter them manually. One reason is because the FSBuild plans sometimes have problems like above, but the main reason I do this is to use the current navdata/sidstar info loaded into the FMC (that is not the same data that FSBuild uses).I think you have to fix the flight plan then the aircraft will quit doing unexpected 180's.

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Guest David Ketchum

I get the heading knob/shaking too, in exactly the same way. This with the latest update (2.10) for the 747x. It seems to only happen during the initial heading selection and thereafter smooths out on subsequent heading selections. Weird? But yah, the whole plane shakes when it does happen (moving the mouse to select heading on the knob). I also see the yoke shake erratically also.

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the reason that the plan does not show the end of the plan is simply because it is just the basic plan i enter the arrival section via the fmc including runway and star this is normal because i dont know what runway or star i will use befpre arrival. I do exactly what you do , infact i dont use fsbuild sids or stars at all. i add the arrival procedure enroute and simply connect the discontinuities in the fmc in the usual way there fore in the fmc you would have seen a continous connection from pou to guava and the final runway no gapsthere is nothing wrong with the plan above , it is not the final version , i cant show you that as the arrival section is added in the fmc. Even if it was a s you think it is "So your plan is to join R473 at POU but no where do you indicate where to get off the airway and join the STAR or approach."this would not cause the aircraft to turn back to waypoints that have already gone besides as far the the aircraft is concerned there is nothing wrong with the part of the plan it was flying as it was a long way from POU and there are no gaps kav

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Yeah i suspected it was not just mine that showed this, except for me the longer i hold the heading knob the more aggressive the shaking becomes up to a pointpersonally i think this is somthing that most users simply are not aware of and just put it down to normal behaviour or dont use heading select enought to realy have noticed it but it is definately a problem / glitch , caused but some conflictI hope others will take a closer look at what i have described here and report it too so that PMDG can look at itKav

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I've definitely noticed problem 1. I usually either use heading hold to stay on the same heading until I've finished adjusting the knob, or move it by 20 degrees or so, wait until I'm at full bank angle and then move it again.As for problem 2, I've definitely noticed some oddities when adding arrival info en route, but haven't been able to pin down the exact nature of these, and have usually put them down to my lack of understanding of how the thing works. I'll maybe try to reproduce them and post back.I don't think I've ever been turned around 180 degrees like you have though.Colin

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Your flight path is faulty. I don't know if it is the cause of your problem, but you should remove waypoint ESNIB from your plan. It is implicitly included as part of B330 but on the other side of XYO/blah, therefore your current plan EGKK->VHHH reaches ENSIB, doubles back to XYO, goes on to IDSEG, QNX, KWE and back to ENSIB. I suggest that whenever you have set up a flightplan in the FMC, no matter how it was generated, you set up the co-pilots display to PLN and step through the route, looking for significant changes in angle, routes that go the wrong direction etc. It is a useful step in ensuring that the plane does what you want it to, and not just what you have told it to. Paul Smith.

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Thanks for replying , obviously the more of us that can acknowledge this issue the more seriously the company will take it. thanks to all that reply in advance aswellkav

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Yes exactly i have had to resort to heading hold too in order to avoid the shaking but you should not have to do this while you adjust the heading, banking should be smooth from the start even during adjustment of the bug and there should not be any shaking of the yokekav

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ive just checked this plan and it is ok no double backs but yes ensib should not be there fortunately fsbuild ignores esnib try it in fsbuild the plan it creates is ok, esnib maybe a mistake but it does not seem to affact the outcome as it appears to be surplus i got the plan from vatsim it ignores esnib because it is not on the airway ESNIB did not show in the fmci tried the plan in the fmc and there are no problems it is continous i deleted ESNIB and re built the plan and the plan came out the same both in fsbuild and the fmc. Fsbuild does not recognise ESNIB as it does not seem to exist that is whyso this is not the cause of the problemskav

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Hi Kav, I don't know how or where you checked your plan, but the only correct way to do it is to set your nav display to PLN, and go to the LEGs display on your FMC. You will notice that the bottom right LSK has changed to "STEP" and the highlighted waypoint is centered on your nav display. Adjust the scale on the nav display so you can see the previous and next waypoints. If it looks reasonable, press the "STEP" LSK and check the next waypoint. You are looking for large and unexpected changes of direction, crossing your route, revisting waypoints and unacceptably large distances between waypoints, (my preference is a max of 150NM, some prefer shorter). If you do this with the routes you have posted, you will quickly see the problems, and might even see the cause.As someone has already stated, the way to use an airway is to state the entry and exit points, and the route to take between them. Go to the ROUTE page and give the FMC a waypoint that is on the airway. This is where you want to join it. On the next line, give the waypoint where you want to leave it, and enter the airway in the VIA LSK. When you activate, the FMC will populate the in-between waypoints and show them on the LEGs page, allowing you to add altitude and or speed restrictions, etc. If you want to go directly to a way point, just put it in the ROUTE page, and leave the VIA field blank. Your imported route is a mix of "direct to" and "airway" because it does not follow the simply rule of entry - route - exit. Just look at how many times the airway B330 is mentioned. You do not need to select the landing to cause the double back, it was going to do it anyway. In short, this is not a fault as the aircraft is doing exactly what you have told it to do, you just havn't told it to do what you want it to do.Finally a note on navigational databases. Fsbuild has its own database. It is NOT the same one that the FMC uses, so while fsbuild might ignore ESNIB as unknown, the FMC will not. The fact that ESNIB is closer to your destination then the waypoints given after it should raise serious alarm bells. this applies no matter where you get your flightplan from; it is only correct if it is correct in the FMC. Paul Smith.

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