land 3 issue

[Vic1 3]

after watching my Oasis hongkong dvd where on finals to Gatwick atc instruct the captain to turn right from the localizer ( hdg 260 approx) to hdg 320 for spacing after the aircraft is fully establised on the glide slope and in land 3 config AP on. The captain simply presses heading select to go to the required heading and uses Vnav to maintain the decent on the glide slope as land 3 mode automaticaly cancells when heading select is introduced.i thought i would try this myself with the 747x but found that when i tried to press heading select after land 3 had activated nothing happened i was not able to turn off land three unless i disconected the AP . Even when i did this app mode switch was still illuminated and i could not extinguish it, i even turned off the FD and AT but still no luck. I could not change the heading with the autopilotKav

[Vic1 3]

I have been testing this scenario again and once established in land 3 with three autopilots sometimes i was able to discon the AP , then re connect just one of 3 and v/s and hdg select were available and i was able to reconnect land three by pressing app othertimes absolutely nothing but land 3 even with just one a/p lit the aircraft continued to follow the loc and glide slope as if in land 3 nothing else on the mcp worked (v/s, hdg, etc)kav

[Guest 413X3]

before you pressed approach again, did you make sure to press loc?

[Vic1 3]

i did try this yes it seemed to make no difference, but getting back to land 3 was not the problem it was leaving land 3 for hdg select that was the problem. Also in the dvd there was not AP disconect to enable hdg select from land 3 mode the captain simply pressed the hdg selector and it activated kav

[Jet Tech 31]

Kav,Once you have captured the localizer (green LOC on the PFD), you should NOT be able to leave the Autoland to HDG SEL without an autopilot disconnect. The idea being that they don't want you to accidentally dial in another heading while tracking an ILS in Low visibility. Double check the video and see if the LOC is green on the PFD or still armed (white)RegardsPaul Gollnick :-cool Technical Operations/Customer Operational SupportPrecision Manuals Development Groupwww.precisionmanuals.comhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/priv/img/forum/sig_pmdg.jpg

[rocketfs 2]

>Kav,>>Once you have captured the localizer (green LOC on the PFD),>you should NOT be able to leave the Autoland to HDG SEL>without an autopilot disconnect. The idea being that they>don't want you to accidentally dial in another heading while>tracking an ILS in Low visibility. Double check the video and>see if the LOC is green on the PFD or still armed (white)>>Regards>Paul Gollnick :-cool >Technical Operations/Customer Operational Support>Precision Manuals Development Group>www.precisionmanuals.com>http://www.precisionmanuals.com/priv/img/forum/sig_pmdg.jpgI agree: shouldn't be possible.Can you tell me the exact phraseology the ATC used to tell the pilot to break off from the approach (ILS) please? At what Runwy was het approach and at what altitude was het forced to leave to LLZ?Did the pilot get an additional altitude clearance?Best Regards,Bert Van Bulck

[downscc 1,327]

How about this: "FLYSWATTER HEAVY PLEASE FLY S-TURNS ON FINAL FOR SEPARATION, CONTACT TOWER NOW ON 120.4" Wow. I have been instructed by ATC to continue on the intercept to final through the final, and continue on the heading for a turn back to final. This adds a zig-zag but it is before LOC capture.

[cavaricooper 2,613]

Please note in the video, Gatwick Director forewarns of the impending separation request. I am not at home to watch, but I'll bet Trevor either was already in manual flight, or else he depressed the A/P disconnect under his left thumb twice in quick succession, cancelling the A/P and the warning, and allowing Douggie to go HED SEL which he then followed manually. What I especially "got" from this video, is that both Trevor and Douggie were comfortable enough with our fat girl to hand fly long segments of the climb (particularly). After a few T/O at 390T+ I quite understand her charms. The PNF operated MCP then becomes particularly useful for the PF- providing FD bar cues as well as heading and altitude bugs and warnings that aid in SA.Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png| XP Pro SP3 with FS-GS System Unification | 2 x APC UPS | Coolermaster Stacker 830 SE | Asus P5E-Deluxe (X48) | e8500 @ 4gHz | Tuniq Tower 120 | EVGA 8800GT 512MB | Sony 40" Bravia XBR | 2 x 1 GB Corsair XMS2 | 500GB Seagate Barracuda 32MB SATA2 x2 (Acronis) | Corsair HX620W PS | CH Products Yoke-Pedals-Throttle Quadrant | Aerosoft 747MCP-EFIS-EICAS |

[Vic1 3]

well it starts at 6000 ft and you clearly see LOC capture AP engaged . ATC then instruct " Oasis700 reduce speed to 220 and decend 4000 , continue inbound with the localizer your number 2, there is heavy traffic ahead of you i may just have to give you a slight alteration of track to give you the required spacing all let you know on course" the aircraft is on loc heading 260 decending to 4000 in v/s an spd select. ATC then say "oasis reduce speed to 180 kts" At this point glide slope has become active the autopilot is engaged and you can clearly see all three autopilots are lit and in land three. ATC then instruct "OASIS700 turn right to 320 degrees". Co pilot acknowlages and the captain reaches across and presses the heading select button and dails it to 320 imediatly after pressing it. You can clearly see that the left and right autopilots extinguish no autopilot disconnect master warning is heard as the center AP never goes off. V/S immediatly illuminates at the present decent rate heading select instantly becomes active and the aircraft turns to 320. The captain maintains the decentrate of the glide slope using vs. At no point is the aircraft flown manually. Captain increases speed back to flap 10 speed again to compenstae for the banking. The next few secconds are missed out where atc intruct return vectors to the localizer . next you see app mode selected and the aircraft lining up again on the loc and fully etablished on loc and glide and back in land 3 .................to landno AP disconect at all and its very clear in the dvd it was not possible that it was edited out as the relevant section is completekav

[Vic1 3]

Loc is clearly green on the PFD yes AP is engagedapp becomes active and 3 autopilot lights are clearly visable as the aircraft decends on the slope. Hdg select is then pressed during land 3 no master warning ap disconect is heard and you can clearly see as hdg select button is pressed left and right autopilots lights go out V/S and speed engage. The center ap light never goes out there is no ap disconnect at any pointthis is one issue but the seccond one is that even when i do diconect the ap sometimes i am unable to get hdg select and speed mode to activate at all, there seems to be no pattern. When it does work it works fine but other times when i disconect then re connect ap those lights do not illuminate and the aircraft continues to follow the loc and glide slope as if in land 3 mode yet whilst app button light is on the left and right ap lights are not lit. and nothing i press on the mcp will alter this state . the aircraft will still track the glide slope and auto land as if in land 3 as long as i re connect the auto pilot. basically the aircraft will not leave land three mode at all as long as the ap is enguaged. even after it has been disconnected and re connected. The only way out is to either press toga or to manually fly it awaykav

[Vic1 3]

i have detailed the dvd events in my other replies here but suffice to say that it is very clear in the dvd that at no point is the ap disconected or that there is any manual flight at all , hdg select is pressed with the ap enguaged and in land three, You can clearly see the left and right ap light extinguish before your eyes whilst the centre never goes out have a look you will see what i meankav

[Vic1 3]

and the airport is egkk london gatwick runway 26lkav

[Vic1 3]

and as far as i am aware although the AP can be disconected via the throttles and the master warning cancelled by a seccond press, the only way to re connect the AP is via the AP buttons on the mcp?this certainly did not happen in the dvd approach at any timekav

[cavaricooper 2,613]

Kav:I want to say I remember the correct way to disengage from 3 AP engaged is disconnect AP, A/T, FDs off, then FDs back on and engage what ever you need from the MCP or continue to hand fly.Perhaps Q can jump in here- maybe Boeing/Honeywell offered Singapore (I think they owned the Oasis 747 prior) a custom workaround- won't be the first time an airline has left the fold.Sorry- a bit beyond my level of knowledge.Best-Carl F. Avari-Cooper BAW0225http://online.vatsimindicators.net/980091/523.png| XP Pro SP3 with FS-GS System Unification | 2 x APC UPS | Coolermaster Stacker 830 SE | Asus P5E-Deluxe (X48) | e8500 @ 4gHz | Tuniq Tower 120 | EVGA 8800GT 512MB | Sony 40" Bravia XBR | 2 x 1 GB Corsair XMS2 | 500GB Seagate Barracuda 32MB SATA2 x2 (Acronis) | Corsair HX620W PS | CH Products Yoke-Pedals-Throttle Quadrant | Aerosoft 747MCP-EFIS-EICAS |

[Jet Tech 31]

Kav,I'm guessing this is an airline option then. Any of the aircraft I have had the pleasure to work on are not set up to allow you to make any changes once you have Land 3 annunciated. The only way to discontinue the approach is as Carl stated, All A/P disconnected and F/D switches cycled Off and On. Its possible that Oasis requested the change from Boeing.Regards Paul Gollnick :-cool Technical Operations/Customer Operational SupportPrecision Manuals Development Groupwww.precisionmanuals.comhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/priv/img/forum/sig_pmdg.jpg