VFR Panel View or Landing View for 767 PIC

[Guest]

Hello PIC addicts,Jumpseating on a 767 (cargo), the captain left for the bathroom and the FO ask me if I wanted to seat down on the captain's seat. I couldn't believe the offer but of course I didn't refuse. When I sat down, to my surprise I noticed the reduced field of view of the pilot as opposed to what is presented on the 767 PIC panel. From this view point the pilot can just see the A/S, EADI and the left top corner of the windshield.Eric was working on a "landing view" prior to the realease of FS2k2 but I never saw it anywhere, I don't know if it was never finished. I downloaded the VFR panel view ( pic2k2.zip) and I was surprised about how much I liked it. For some reason the outside view gets rendered in a much more realistic way with these expanded views (Paul's 707 panel has one, 737 DF has one). The night landing looks extremely similar to the real thing. I flew the Lagoon 8 approach to TJSJ where you line up with runway 10 and you circle to runway 8 at about 450 feet. The experience is so realistic with this type of view that it is worth recommending, not to mention higher frame rates. Of course the panel is required to manage systems, FMC and monitor configuration. But during takeoffs, landings and taxi I believe there is need for a "Captain's View" to correctly depict the world outside from the captain's chair. A good time to switch to this view is after being fully configured on landing and above 1000 ft on takeoff. The only problem with the "VFR View" is that is doesn't have any real moving gauges that you may want like the A/S, EADI and Altimeter (the VS would not be in this view since you can get vertical info from the G/S or VASI)A while back there was a post titled "VFR Panel View for 767PIC FS2002" where some PIC users thought this panel was not needed because they claimed that if you are at the right weight the default panel view is accurate. I think they were resenting criticism about the panel view not being correct. While it is true the view is accurate, the main panel view is not realistic. No pilot has ever the whole panel in sight while flying a 767 or any other airplane for that matter. I fly a 19 pax turbo prop and my field of view is very similar to what I am describing: the top left portion of the panel and them the ADI, A/S, etc... I am wondering if it is possible to create like the VFR panel but with some moving gauges (like on Paul's 707 Pilot's view). A view with only some of the 767 pic gauges or is there is a limitation in 767 PIC of creating a second view with moving gauges. I would also like to know what other PIC fliers think about this. Any comments?Best Regards, Pedro

[Guest Dan_Pergau]

Hi Pedro,You have convinced me to try it... a man with your credentials liking an addon such as this has got to be a good sign.Dan

[Guest]

Hi Dan,Well, I'm not sure what credentials are those but in my opinion when flying in this view I really get the sense of flying as I get get it with the other landing views like the 707 and 737 DF. Try it at night and you'll se what I'm talking about. The new AETI 747 looks like will also have this view available when it's done. It seems to me that 767 PIC deserves a landing view that includes the top portion of the panel like the EADI, AS and Alt, UI don't know if it is possible however.... Pedro

[michal 44]

I agree that landing view would be nice. But from what I heard/seen the DF737's landing view does not include EADI which in my opinion is a must.Michael J.

[KevinAu 441]

I agree that it would be "nice" to have a landing view. I doubt the PICTeam would take time to do it at this point since it is certainly not a "necessity" since the primary view works fine for all flight phases. But if someone was to obtain permission from the Team to do a new landing view panel, it certainly should stretch low enough to include the top three working instrument gauges - airspeed, ADI and altimeter - within view.

[Guest Lobaeux4]

I think a VFR panel would be great. For instance, that new Debonair uses a pretty novel way of getting a 'VFR' panel that works. Just "grab" the panel and pull it down, also pulling down the scenery window as well. I wonder if this would work.Joe

[Guest]

Hi Michal,First time I saw the VFR panel, I realized it didn't have a VS or AS or ADI and I thought that it would be unusable but then I thought that when I am landing I just need to look outside and look at the airspeed so I display the airspeed and altitude with control z and just look outside at the VASI and believe me it's great!. Before you see the runway you can stay inside looking at the panel. I was wondering if in 767 PIC it is possible to set up a second window with working gauges or if there is something about the gauge design that prevents it. Best Regards, Pedro

[Steve Dra 7,588]

Hey Pedro,Yes it is very possible!http://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboa...7de57ed536c.jpgNotice how I have added the altimeter and VSI to my EHSI control panel window. All the gauges shown are undocked and on my right monitor, leaving my center display at full screen, what a spectacular view you have on landing!This is an older shot, and you can see I've since moved the EHSI on to the right monitor.http://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboa...e444a2ba2c2.jpgAdding any gauge to a window is not too hard (I did it with no gauge programming knowledge, just trial and error), and when I get some time, I plan on adding a few more gauges to a new window I can undock and move to another monitor (like the EICAS CRTs, gear handle, caution panel, etc.). I use the Pegasus EADI so I don't need the airspeed indicator, but I could add it if I needed it.Regards,Steve Dra

[Steve Dra 7,588]

Yep Joe,pulling the panel down and resizing the outside view works fine, and I used to do it. The problem is that pulling the panel down far enough to make a difference hides the VSI, and a few other nice to have instruments. Now if there was only a way to undock those instruments and place them on their own window... Hmmmm ;)Regards,Steve Dra

[Guest]

Hi Steve,I have the undockable gauges and they are really great. I have Paul Golding's 707 and I am was very impressed by the sensation of flying and realism that you get using what he calls the Pilot's View and Landing View. What Paul did was to replace the rear view and the look down view with 2 forward views, one a bigger close up that the other. So for example, on 767 PIC one would have the ADI, AS and ALT and the forward view on one (for takeoff,approach and landing)and the other one just the dash board like on the VFR panel pic2k2.zip (for taxiing or visual only landings (no ADI)). I don't know yet if it is possible to set these views like Paul did with the 767 PIC gauges. Also, can a view be set up while showing half a gauge? I am going back to learn how are these files configured and see if it is possible. I wish I knew more about the panel.cfg file but I am reading the SDK and looking at examples to learn.I like using the undockable gauges for the same effect but I really prefer the type of view that Paul created on the 707 panel much better because it gives you the Captain's seat perpective. The gauges while accurate remind you that you are looking at a computer while the landing view kind of looks like the real thing. You have to try it to appreciate. Thank you for the response. Let's see what happens. I am amazed no one has done this before... Best regards, Pedro

[Steve Dra 7,588]

Hey Pedro,I'll install Paul's panel tonight and see if I can make similar views for our beloved 767 panel.The only problem that I can see right now is that I'd have to use portions of the copyrighted pic bitmaps to make the view (I have no time or skill to create my own) so if I did create a vfr panel, I couldn't distribute it.If I can figure out how to do it, maybe I can provide the instructions on how I did it (with Wilco's permission of course).I'll keep you updated.Regards,Steve Dra

[JLedford 0]

Hey Steve,Man it would be great if you could make those adjustments to the "office"! Do keep us posted!By the way, enjoyed the thread about your landing in Boston.Regards,Jay

[Guest]

Hi Steve,If you can figure how to do it, please let me know. I understand the issues with the copyright of the panel. My intuition tells me that if someone can work it out, it will be so popular that a solution to the copyright issue will be found. Landing at night with these views is amazingly realistic. I can almost imaging what it'll look like on 767 PIC. I actually think that any panel worth flying deserves one. Keep in touch, Pedro

[Guest ilh]

How about something like this?http://www.sls.lcs.mit.edu/ilh/fs/pics/landing1.jpghttp://www.sls.lcs.mit.edu/ilh/fs/pics/landing2.jpgAll I did was cut off the bottom 292 rows of the forward .bmp file. Gauges and the MCP seem to work, although I really haven't tested it at all. I don't know what the implications are for having a gauge on the main panel and the landing panel. Maybe that is bad news.I hacked this view by removing the main panel with W and then shift-8 to pop this up. I'm sure something smoother could be set up to switch views. I was just trying to see what the concept would look like, so don't go asking me for this! Besides, the bitmap is copyrighted.Lee Hetherington (KBOS)

[michal 44]

Lee,This is the landing view that would tickle my fancy ... real dream come true.Any chance you could share secrets how you obtained this result. ?This would be a panel view I would switch to say after I lowered the landing gear.Michael J.