Rudder Problem Fixed! V1 cut Pictures...

[Guest]

Hi All:I've read every post in this thread and nowhere in any of Pedro's posts does he state that he has the Auto Rudder in FS menu turned ON.It would be nice to hear him state his actual setup. I fly with the auto rudder off and both yaw dampers on with a rudder effectiveness set at 24.0 in the cfg file. Last night on Vatsim with FSMETEO coming into seattle at 31000 ft. the winds aloft were changing from a 54kt to a 76kt direct left crosswind, and during autopilot corrections for the gusting crosswinds, the trim ball was all over the place. I turned Auto Rudder on in FS Menu and at least the ball settled down, even though the aircraft was yawing alot to correct for the gusts.I would ask Pedro to do all his testing V1 cuts and just normal turns and using rudder to keep the ball in trim, then go to instant replay and view the ball during these manuevers and notice that the ball will never stay centered in replay while turning, even though it was centered up fine while actually doing the turn in the sim. All other items in the panel are replayed as they actually appeared, EXCEPT THE TRIM BALL. WHY???Just a thought.Thanks. Gary W. Norris AAL214

[Guest captbulldog]

It's funny that I found, with YD off in mid of flight, I can do a complete 360 with one push of the rudder! That's a pretty cool stunt! :-lol

[KevinAu 441]

The auto rudder option in the menu should always be off if you ever want to be able to use your rudder pedals.You should experiment with different rudder_effectiveness numbers for yourself.Sawing back and forth during instantly and constantly changing winds is something which happens on all MSFS2k2 aircraft. This can occur with any aircraft in any phase of flight in MSFS2k2. It is outside the scope of this rudder fix.

[Guest]

Hi Gary,I really don't understand the behavior during replay. I fly with Autorudder OFF to use my pedals. I also use FSUIPC to limit turbulence. Since we don't have motion turbulence is a non-value added feature of FS2002 as far as I am concerned. Windshears and such could probebly be modeled a little better. Chris from FSw is supposed to be coming out with a weather program which is supposed to do a better job at modeling all aspects of weather including winds ,we'll see. Pedro

[Guest]

...and if you DON'T have pedals like the rest us, then I suggest you have Auto-Rudder ON....although the stragest things happen now...I tried NO Auto-Rudder (it is OFF), yet with Yaw Dampers on and 24.0 Effectiveness, I still have rudder control during taxi with the stick -NO Twisitng required-Go figure that one.I will leave the Auto-Rudder OFF and rely on the PIC Yaw Dampers to assist with the co-ordination for my MS FF v1 Stick.Rob.

[KevinAu 441]

I don't understand what kind of anomaly you are trying to describe. If you do not have rudder pedals OR some other device such as a twist grip to control the yaw axis, then you would have to play with the auto-rudder menu item selected. I'm assuming your MS FF v1 Stick has a twist axis, which means you actually DO have rudder pedals ala the twist grip. It is your twist grip which is the rudder "pedal" on your setup. So with such a device, you would want to play with the auto-rudder menu item deselected.If you do not have rudder pedals or twist grip, then this particular thread does not really relate to your setup because you would not be able to control the rudder in any convenient fashion and proper crosswind landings and V1 cuts are then out of the question anyways.Let's not lose the point that the bottom line here is that proper rudder control with rudder pedals (or an equivalent rudder axis controlling device) can be obtained post patch by:1. NOT selecting Auto-Rudder in the Menu bar. This is because selecting auto-rudder will remove the rudder axis from your control.2. Have both overhead panel Yaw Damper switches ON at all times. This will prevent the rudder from oscillating to the limits.3. Experimenting with and choosing a higher value for the rudder_effectiveness parameter in the aircraft.cfg file such that rudder authority is returned to the user despite the continuous use of Yaw Damper. Be aware that certain numerical values in this field may be ignored by MSFS and the result is behavior of a default value of 1.

[Guest]

...what I am saying is that even with Auto-Rudder OFF, I am still able to turn the nose wheel left and right with the stick ALONE, no twist action - this was NOT possible before I had set the Effectiveness to 24.0 and the new version of FSUIPC. This, I assume, is a result of the Yaw Damper action taking affect on the ground?? Whatever it is, it is new. I also heard the new version of FSUIPC did 'something' to the Yaw Damper/Rudder effect in PIC....also note that you do maintain rudder control with Auto-Rudder ON with the new 24.0 effectiveness setting. The twist grip is highly inaccurate and hard to gauge for in flight rudder...so in effect, I do need the auto-coordination. For large crosswinds, the new 24.0 setting gives me greater rudder control, but I often find I maintain the crab until the main gear is down, then use the rudder to allign the nose to the centreline before the nose wheel touches down. I am sure this is not 100% accurate, but it works nicely and impresses my buddies.Rob.

[Guest ilh]

I concur. It is really hard to control rudder in flight with a twist joystick. Sure you can do it, but there is no precision and it is hard to maintain a constant twist angle while moving the stick along its other axes. I have a MS Sidewinder Precision 2 (non-FF) joystick.Lee Hetherington (KBOS)

[Guest Martin]

Perhaps there should be a little note of that in the AOM!"If the yaw dampers are inoperative, DO NOT use rudder."Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

[Guest Martin]

>1. NOT selecting Auto-Rudder in the Menu bar. This is >because selecting auto-rudder will remove the rudder axis >from your control. >>2. Have both overhead panel Yaw Damper switches ON at all >times. This will prevent the rudder from oscillating to the >limits. Doesn't the right yaw damper switch in fact control the auto-rudder, or auto-coordination (assuming that it's the same thing in FS)? :-hmmmI guess I have to find some time to do some V1 cuts in PIC, instead of flying that PSS 747...Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

[ACA857 5]

I too remember my old-school days of flying the PSS744 - a giant leap for its time, that's where I learned about VNAV/LNAV...now it's a nice centrepiece for my virtual museum. The PSS777 is pretty much the same thing less two engines and runs a little smoother than it's big sister...so when I get bored with PIC (once every 1000 hours or so), I can take the DF737 or PSS777 up for a boot around. I also like Paul G's 707 and I found a 727 which is nice too when I feel like some real old school.I don't think the right Yaw damper does anything now in FS2k2...I am not certain. Maybe some kind soul will test all this out - with and without FS Auto-Rudder active and see what the best solution is for Stick only -and- Stick/Yoke AND Pedal users.Lee - I have tried the 24.0 setting with Auto-Rudder ON and OFF and have yet to determine which is best. Either way, I have the rudder control I need, and I taxi on the ground with the stick, not the twist. The twist action is very poor and I use it only for tricky crosswinds after the main gear is down or during takeoff to keep the nose straight...doing a real "crab" with the MS Stick is just silly it is so hard.Gone Flying now.Rob.

[KevinAu 441]

Ahhh..I see. My suggestion is to return to FSUIPC v2.85 In 2.86, Pete found the offset for auto-coord which had been moved with the advent fs2k2. Under v2.86, the overhead YD button now will actually turn on auto-coord as if auto-rudder was selected from the aircraft realism menu. Which is the original intent of that button.In fs2k2 under v2.85 and earlier, the overhead auto-coord button was not working as intended because of an incorrect IPC offset. However, the button still had a local effect on the PIC panel in that it prevented the wild rudder spikes.This was fortunate for PICers desiring to do V1 cuts and crosswind landings since setting the auto-coord button ON fixed the rudder spikes, while still allowing uncoordinated flight controls.Operating 767PIC under FSUIPC v2.86, you would not be able to do V1 cuts because the auto-coord button ON will now enable auto-rudder. But you need the auto-coord button ON to prevent rudder spikes. Hmmm.In order to do V1 cuts, you will need a fsuipc version of 2.85 or earlier. At least until Pete Dowson makes the IPC offset 0278 correction "optional".kevin

[Guest Martin]

Almost everything seems clear now.But I think you have rudder control even with auto-rudder ON, it's just that you don't have to use rudder to coordinate a turn. I will check this, instead of talking about it. :-)Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

[Guest Martin]

The PSS 747 and 777 are still a 747-400 and a 777, and the only ones that are anywere close to good in MSFS. I just can't restrict myself to one aircraft, so sometimes I will go for them. But I'm not crazy - I don't do one hour flights in 747s all the time! Then it might even be a Fokker 50 (which panel is one of the most advanced freeware panels).About the DF737, I think it's pretty accurate. It's certainly more complete when it comes to simulating the FMC than PSS planes, and in some respects it's even better than PIC. (I'm thinking of the A/T disarming when you land, and not trying to keep the approach speed like PIC does.) But of course DF is lacking when it comes to true systems simulation and failures - you know that everything will go as planned...Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

[KevinAu 441]

That is correct. You can still stab the pedals and see an effect. However, all else being equal, the rudder is not as effective with the auto-coord button ON in v2.86 under the same rudder_effectiveness values as it was in v2.85. The difference was enough to make the V1 cuts successful in 2.85 but unsuccessful in 2.86. Perhaps even higher values of rudder_effectiveness will work in 2.86. I haven't tried yet.