Steve Small's air file for Baron 58

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Here we go again, heh Steve? When you get the story right and stop the spin of your own, you might have more credibility with me and the rest of the staff here. We didn't accept "Carenado's apology on YOUR behalf". We posted Carenado's apology to the community. Big difference guy. But it says more than I care to point out about your ego.And what is more revealing about you sir is that Carenado apologized to you and committed to not repeat the "sin". You weren't big enough to accept that apology or their commitment to not "sin" again.To the point; we didn't accept "Carendo's spin-doctoring", we had a group of knowledgable and credible folks look into the details of their "sin" against you AND WHICH YOU CONTRIBUTED TO AND WORKED WITH US TO SHOW. We also listened and evaluated their responses to the claims against them and OBJECTIVELY decided as a group that they were going to recitify their mistake(s). Which they did and have maintained. That's the part that sticks in your craw Steve; we did not boycott them for you.Steve, the fact of the matter is that you were not willing, and to this day, are still not willing to accept anything less than their demise, and AVSIM's leadership in making them go-away. Until AVSIM somehow leads the masses to the slaying of the great evil Carenado, you won't be happy and AVSIM will always be the bad guy for not having done so.Talk about spin doctoring.... you were "refused the right of reply by AVSIM to Carenado's lame excuse"... YOU WEREN'T DENIED ANYTHING. You decided to go on a public rant. You never wrote us a reply to Carenado's explanation and apology to the community. And then you pulled your toys and went home (or didn't, or did, or now, apparently didn't - again). Because we won't kowtow to you and do your bidding we are going to be a source of annoyance to you forever Steve. Need I say it? Not finding your products in our file library is okay by us - its just more of the same - punish AVSIM by denying the community - great strategy. And I might add, reflects tremendously on FSD.To everyone, I suggest you go to the front page and do a search on Carenado. It will bring up a front page editorial on "What is Piracy" and then a link to this:http://www.avsim.com/pages/0901/carenado_s...llegations.htmland then...http://www.avsim.com/pages/1001/carenado/carenado.html

[MadDog 353]

Steve... Tom - enough already!!!This is really getting old.Steve -I understand your view. Carenado stole from you - they were wrong! They issued an apology - you weren't satisfied - apparently Avsim was. Frankly, that incident is so far in the past - even I can't remember all the details - and I'm sure most of Avsim's readership doesn't even know what we're discussing. You may remember, my friend, the days when our mutual friend, Mr. Chaffin, publically denounced your name for "infringing" on his copyright of the DC-3. I was the one who sided with you on this very forum. After heated discussion and your formal apology about the whole misunderstanding, things turned out pretty bright in the end (if I remember correctly). In view of recent events, If Roy can forgive - I would hope you can. I've never bought a product from Carenado - but I will if they ever produce a genuine product I'm interested in. On the other hand, I've purchased several products from FSD because I knew anything with which you were involved would be of high quality... I haven't been disappointed! I have been disappointed that I had to spend an hour trying to log on to the "other" sight just to get the T-38 service release. I beg you to reconsider - Avsim is a much friendlier sight for most of us!Tom -Stop helping Steve "stir the pot" - If I were moderator, I would have locked the thread after your last post... too much fuel for controversy. This whole wretched diatribe is not worth the bandwidth.Guys - why don't you just agree to disagree and try to make up. The Flightsim community would really appreciate it!"Burning my soapbox",Marc

[LAdamson 240]

BRAVO................Very well stated!!!

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

"You may remember, my friend, the days when our mutual friend, Mr. Chaffin, publically denounced your name for "infringing" on his copyright of the DC-3."Ah yes, thank you. I had forgotten that incident. Pot, Kettle and all. Apology good enough for Roy, but not for Steve - go figure. :-lol"Stop helping Steve "stir the pot" - If I were moderator, I would have locked the thread after your last post... too much fuel for controversy. This whole wretched diatribe is not worth the bandwidth."As for the first bit, helping him "stir the pot" is just the opposite of my intent. Most of his shots at us here and elsewhere have been ignored by our staff (and of course, we have not been defended by anyone that I can recall - you know, AVSIM is the "evil empire" syndrome, and god help you if dare disagree with the self-appointed Icons of the community types :-lol ). I am getting real tired of Mr. Small posting a jibe at every opportunity, and I have decided that I am going to reply to that proganda and BS so that at a minimum, the reader gets our side of the story presented too. To ignore him does not do service to the many great people that contribute to AVSIM and in his broad generalized swipes at us, he smears too. And it is that same great group of folks that collectively made the decision to NOT scourage Carenado just because this petulent child wanted us to. Egos are dangerous, especially when they are not issued with a trigger guard.As for the second bit, we are accused incessently of being gestapo, communists, and Hitlers.. Now you want me to lock a thread???? Geezzz.... :-lolEdited cause I didn't get all of my chest the first or second time! :)

[Guest SoarPics]

Yep, no doubt a majority of the community who witnessed this incident last summer shares Maddog's feelings today. To what end does this rift benefit anybody. None. If we set aside for the time being any benefit to the community in ending this matter, one can still easily see the advantage to both Avsim and Steve Small/FSD et al in bringing an end to the hostilities. As was stated, why can't both parties agree to disagree on how and what was done in the past, and now forge ahead with a better understanding of the needs and wants of each other.Regards,

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Where this logic breaks down is that as far as AVSIM is concerned, we had "agreed to disagree". Small has not, will not and doesn't want to accept anything short of AVSIM burning Carenado at the stake. Thus, at every opportunity, he has taken his shots at us (with some great encouragement from those who want to forward their own agendas). Sorry, we have rolled over and allowed Steve to play his infantile game too long, and that's that.I have a perfectly clear understanding of what Steve's needs are. He's not going to get that here.

[Guest SoarPics]

Sigh...:-wave

[MadDog 353]

Tom,And I was afraid I might be accused of going a little too easy on you in my original post :-)>I am getting real tired of Mr. Small posting a jibe at every >opportunity, and I have decided that I am going to reply to >that proganda and BS so that at a minimum, the reader gets >our side of the story presented too. To ignore him does not >do service to the many great people that contribute to AVSIM >and in his broad generalized swipes at us, he smears too. >And it is that same great group of folks that >collectively made the decision to NOT scourage Carenado just >because this petulent child wanted us to. Egos are >dangerous, especially when they are not issued with a >trigger guard. I agree that Steve has never missed the opportunity to express his displeasure with you guys (how's that for "politically correct") and I understand that you're tired of it... and you have a right to be. The point I'm trying to make is that this bickering is not doing anybody any good. My favorite jibe is on the FSD website where it says that F*****Sim.com is the "only" sight to visit on the web. It makes me laugh because I know better. Is it propaganda? Yes... does it take a reasonably intelligent person long to realize it's propaganda? No. Avsim is unquestionably the best - and I've tried them all. I have the utmost respect for you and Avsim and I have the utmost respect for what Steve has done with the FS flight dynamics. Steve has a beef with you about Carenado, you have a beef with Steve about slandering your name. Are both beefs valid? I don't know and I really don't care. I was hoping that maybe my post would help you guys arrive at a truce; but based on your response - my mission has failed :-). You guys hate each other more than I thought. Oh well - my loss.>As for the second bit, we are accused incessently of being >gestapo, communists, and Hitlers.. Now you want me to lock a >thread???? Geezzz.... :-lol I was actually hoping to get "banned"... just kidding... just kidding!!! BIG :-) BIG :-).>Edited cause I didn't get all of my chest the first or >second time! :) You know that they make implants for that problem... I hear the "saline" version is actually quite safe ;-).I'll bow out of this discussion for now - I think I've done enough damage.Good to talk to you,Marc

[Guest Dean]

Since I was not a part of the MSFS forum when this issue originated, I wasn't aware of this controversy After reviewing the facts presented today it looks to me like this was handled very well by AVSIM. Their actions seem above and beyond what they are obligated to do as a forum host. Somehow I'm a little less enthusiastic about flying that C115 I just bought last night.

[LAdamson 240]

>Somehow I'm a little less enthusiastic about flying that >C115 I just bought last night. Dean, I wouldn't worry too much! I've been around these forums much too long :).......... and personally took plenty of "stabs" at Steve when it comes to this Avisim/Coronado issue, as well as his attempting to "strong arm" Microsoft by withdrawing files. He does get a bit too touchy on these subjects, but in many other ways is quite a nice guy who really does know how to manuipulate FS files. He's released many exceptional freeware files for MSFS over the years, as well as some of the best payware ones out there. I do side with Avsim on this issue, but not enough to get into the way of supporting FSD either. Their products and Steves air.files for others products such as the Flight1 C-421 are just some of the best possible at this point. I've just learned to not let "personalities" get in the way of "business" sometimes, because we all have our good and bad sides........ depending on the moment, don't we? If not, we'd have to "junk" FSD, Dreamfleet, PSS, RealAir Simulations, and a few other's I've forgotten about! :) All of these people/companies have been great for improving this sim, but have their moments of aggrivation too.L.Adamson

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

"It makes me laugh because I know better. Is it propaganda? Yes... does it take a reasonably intelligent person long to realize it's propaganda? No."Yeah, when we saw the posting on their site about "only available at...", the senior staff here got a real laugh out of that. Talk about transparent petty childishness. :)"Avsim is unquestionably the best - and I've tried them all. I have the utmost respect for you and Avsim..." We appreciate that Marc. We do try hard and despite the brickbats from the few (thankfully), we enjoy providing the service to the community." I was hoping that maybe my post would help you guys arrive at a truce; but based on your response - my mission has failed"I wouldn't say it is a failure. As for arriving at a truce, Steve has had ample opportunity to lower the temperature, but repeatedly chooses not to. His choice. It is our choice to finally respond to the BS, distortion and propoganda."You guys hate each other more than I thought."Not by any stretch is that true of me. In the larger scheme of things (i.e., real life) the pettiness of this situation is but a pimple on the arse of a blue whale (if it can even be inflated to that magnitude). I have neither the inclination nor energy to invest in that emotion with regard to Steve or his cronies. Ambivalence describes my feelings toward Steve much more accurately. "I was actually hoping to get "banned"..."For some silly reason, folks seem to think that statements like that are a "hot button" issue for us. My feelings, succinctly, are that if you can't abide the rules, denigrate others, or otherwise put AVSIM at risk in these forums, then neither Scott, Francois, Aidan, or any of the other moderators here feel one milligram of regret or guilt for having done so. I have been told that this IS a hot button issue elsewhere, but as we have said a gazillion times in the past, when you choose to pay our legal fees and indemnify us from all legal actions against AVSIM, we'll happily allow that person to set the rules here. And any site owner that doesn't uphold some standards of behaviour is so much at risk that I can't even begin to imagine them getting a full night's sleep - or if they do, it is in total naivete."You know that they make implants for that problem... I hear the "saline" version is actually quite safe"...Been there, done that. What emptiness existed between my ears has been filled with the stuff. :-lol

[Guest]

Hello,I've been observing Mr Small posts here and on the FSD Forum. All I can say is that it is sad that he is ripped off for hiw work. Everybody know that he is talented but we can wonder if he is a gentleman. For me he does not take himself for nothing.Nadege.

[Guest TimD]

>Here we go again, heh Steve? When you get the story right >and stop the spin of your own, you might have more >credibility with me and the rest of the staff here. We >didn't accept "Carenado's apology on YOUR behalf". We posted >Carenado's apology to the community. Big difference guy. But >it says more than I care to point out about your ego. [snip]>Talk about spin doctoring.... you were "refused the right of >reply by AVSIM to Carenado's lame excuse"... YOU WEREN'T >DENIED ANYTHING. That is untrue, and is in fact at the heart of all the hard feelings between FSD and Avsim. And the reason we did not post the T-38 in your file library.We did (both Steve and I) object to your acceptance of their lame "apology", and you blew us off. You did not even show us the common respect of responding to our mail. And if you can show me where you ever published our response, then I will certainly apologize.Until then, the hard feelings continue, and I don't believe it is any of our doing. [link:www.fsheartland.net]http://www.fsd-international.com/team/Heartland_sig.gif

[LAdamson 240]

>Until then, the hard feelings continue, and I don't believe >it is any of our doing. >Of course it's "some" of your doing! I like FSD products, but I do get "pi**ed off" when continually having to decide whether to secretly E-mail your past "free" air.files or not. I have NO affiliation with Avsim, other than some support in a few dollars. But being an FSD customer as well as promoting FSD's air.files.....it does sometimes leave me with my own cold feelings; ..thanks to withdrawn files due to your continuous hard feelings! You need to think about the rest of us!! Those "files" are exactly what helps promote the rest of your product!!!!!!!!L.Adamson --- what would I know?...... I've only been in business myself for about 20 years now.

[Guest Dean]

Larry,Since I am new to this old conflict, what exactly does FSD want from AVSIM? Since AVSIM is the only flight forum I participate in, I am starting to think my purchase of FSD's product was a mistake since they are apparently at war with AVSIM and are boycotting this site. That's too bad because a major factor in my purchasing an FSD product was the outstanding reviews AVSIM gave it.