Steve Small's air file for Baron 58

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

No, that is not what I said Larry. What I said was YOU ARE BAIT. :-lolChum if you will. The FLY bait waiting to happen. :-lol

[Guest]

Other than being a happy customer of 1 (so far) FSD plane, and having made a donation to AVSim in the past, I have no affiliation with either entity.I'm new to the full story of Carenado, FSD, and AVSim. I had read earlier on that Carenado had been involved in some shady dealings, so I declined purchase of any of their products.Now that I know the full story (or have, at least, heard both sides and read the articles Tom pointed to), I'm positive I'll NEVER purchase from Carenado ever, even if they come out with a must-have, best-in-the-world aircraft for FS. It's a matter of principle winning out over one's desires. I'd love to buy their Beech Bonanza (A33 or the V-wing). But I won't.And, after reading through everything, I have to say I side with FSD/Steve Small on this. Especially in the United States (where I live) people are far too willing to let people off the hook merely for saying "I take full responsibility for X"... In my opinion, that goes no way whatsoever towards curbing such activity on the part of others in the future. How many politicians can get away with things because predecessors have (meaninglessly) "taken full responsibility" for crappy behavior? Punishment is what works. Accepting apologies for major infringements does not work.If one company stole from another (and in this case, an air file is -pretty- significant), that company should be PUNISHED. Simply allowing them to say "Oh, we're sorry" is not sufficient in my opinion. I think the entire FS community, including players and sites, should have punished Carenado in exactly the way Tom says Steve Small and crew wanted. I think they should have been boycotted. I think news releases from them should not have been posted. In short, I disagree with every website runner's decision to continue to give publicity to Carenado.Everybody gets to form their own opinions of things. Everybody gets to act on those opinions. I think most folks agree that Carenado did something very wrong. Some (many?) have decided to forgive them for theivery, and for attempting to make money off of someone else's free work.I don't share the opinion that it's ok simply because they apologized.And so, I can understand why FSD choose not to do business with them. Were I the injured party, I would be unrelentingly angry with anyone I saw as giving aid to the person who stole from me. While not an implicit condoning of Carenado, printing news releases and reviews of their products is far from the public shunning I think would be appropriate.If someone stole something from your house, then told your neighbor that they were sorry and your neighbor invited them over for dinner, would you not be angry at your neighbor? I wouldn't forgive them!I still like AVSim. I'll support them. I still like FSD and look forward to their next release. But I'm glad this came up. I'm glad to see what actually occurred. I'm glad to see how AVSim responded, though I'm disappointed that they (and the rest of the FS community) failed to respond to Carenado in a way I think would have been appropriate.--Tony (a person who will never purchase a Carenado product)-Edited for typos

[Guest SoarPics]

<--Tony (a person who will never purchase a Carenado product)>Only an hour after my breakfast this morning I had a drink... something I never do. I had just written a check for $920.00 to an attorney for his services in dealing with a copyright infringement I incurred outside of this hobby. Fortunately, the financial damage wasn't as bad as it could have been (the theives readily relented and apologized for their "error"). And you can bet I'm still peeved about the matter.I passionately share your stand about Carenado. I simply refuse to buy any product they are associated with... ever. I do not accept their "explanation", nor do I wish to cut them any quarter. Once a thief, always a thief. I forgive, but my baby's hungry mouth knows not forgiveness.Sadly, this hobby has its share of ambivalence just as any other endeavor in this world. Many people simply don't care... they just want what they want. With regard to the rift between Avsim and FSD, clearly it is deep and unpleasant. For everyone. Because of my stand on copyright infringement, I am uncomfortable with any association any reputable site would have with Carenado. I personally would like to see Avsim disaccociate itself from Carenado, but I have little influence over their choice of paths. I come here because I enjoy the company and banter of my fellow simmers, and from time to time I get to help somebody with a problem he/she is having. In the end I offer my financial support to this site (because, though they may not be perfect, they are certainly a cut above) and wish only the best to them.FSD and Steve Small are not perfect, though. There are egos involved here... egos on both sides. I've not been happy with some of the customer support responses I've seen from FSD. To the extent that such responses have been embarrassing to all in the hobby. I know not to visit the FSD Forum for answers to any niggling problems I might experience with their products. I make solutions myself because, I must confess, I can get downright surly when someone gets my ire up... and I don't like getting surly. Does this mean I don't buy their products. No, because I wish to support them in much the same way I wish to support this site. I have purchased all their aircraft, and I'm proud to say so. Because I believe in their efforts and dedication, and I believe in their integrity.And so, it seems I'm comtent to sit on the fence. That's not my style. My course of action is to do anything I can (which admittedly isn't much) to assist in putting the bad feelings in the past. I was hopeful earlier today that maybe some good things could happen from this thread. It was not to be. But I'm an eternal optimist, and maybe tomorrow will bring a change of heart between Avsim and FSD/Steve Small.Finally, Tony, I'm uncomfortable choosing sides in this rift. This is not like the FSPlanet matter, where members of the community are working together to stop a thieve. This involves two respected entities within our hobby. My experience has taught me that when community members takes sides in something like the bad feelings between Avsim and FSD, then what we'll end up with is nothing more than a civil war. And then everybody looses.Regards,

[Guest]

Thanks for the well-thought-out comments, Greg.I guess I should clarify, lest anyone take what I said in the wrong light. When I said I side with FSD on the issue, I meant that I disagree with AVSim's (and other site's) actions re: Carenado after they issued their apology, and that I understand why FSD is still angry.This does not mean I will stop supporting, speaking highly of, and contributing money to AVSim. Far from it. It and it's "competitor" are the two sites that have completely replaced my use of newsgroups for sharing FS info and comradarie, and I definitely consider it to be one of the better aspects of the hobby.--Tony

[Guest]

Gee,I didn't even know this airfile even existed till a read this post. I just gave it a try and it is great. I will enjoy the flying the Baron now. Thanks Steve. I did buy FSD products and they are my favorite. And to all on this post, thank you for providing my evening's entertainment. Jerry springer doesn't get better then this. Well, I am going to go fly my Baron now.

[Guest SoarPics]

Tony,Your well thought out points in #46 are greatly appreciated.Like you and I, the two parties flinging words at each other have their strengths... and they have their weaknesses. They are, after all, human. Hopefully, at some point in time they can put their differences behind them. I believe both will benifit once they've done so.And the hobby they both love will be even better than it already is.Regards,

[Guest SoarPics]

Uh... that would be Steve's Baron.And if you find this thread entertaining, you really have been watching too much Springer. :-lol Regards,

[Guest Ron Freimuth]

>But after reading the apology, I noticed something very >questionable in the third paragraph: >>" A review of the possible causes behind this mistake >indicates that extraneous material was INVOLUNTARILY >filtered into our production line of one model that went out >for sale, in which it was included the file of Mr. Small, to >whom we have sent a personal letter apologizing for the >unfortunate incident." >>I would be very suspicious as to how Steve Small's air file >just likely filtered itself into the one model that was for >sale. All the evidence is that Carenado Lied. And, AVSIM supports these pirates. I have demonstrated that in the past and no one disagreed with my logic. Though Tom A. closed a thread after I 'had my say'.Ron

[Guest SoarPics]

Ron,I'm curious about what end you could ever hope to accomplish by walking into someone's home and offending them?Your previous post can not really serve any useful and positive purpose... and heavens knows this dispute could surely use some positive input.Take a moment to ask yourself how much that pound of flesh you are seeking is really worth. The time is long past due for all involved to search for an amicable resolution.Regards,