autothrottle and concorde in fs2002

[Guest Boone]

Hi Scott,I've just started flying (trying to fly) the concorde in FS2K2 and couldn't find an afterburner button on the panel anywhere. Any advice?Also where can I find the air file Paul Varn?I really want to get this plane to work.Regards,Boone

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

You've hidden your profile so I can't send you details. If you want useful info please send me a request privately.Here, for the benefit of all, is a brief description on how to get to M2.02 at 57,000ft and still have fuel left when you get to JFK from London Heathrow...1. Load 100% fuel. You won't need it all but the balance can be tricky otherwise.2. Once lined up for departure switch on afterburners (SHIFT + F4) and engage full throttle. Rotate at 190kts and climb out at 2,000fpm at 250kts.3. At 500AGL switch off afterburners.4. Climb at 2,00fpm to FL280 (M0.95). Increase speed gradually to 400kts. At the accel point (just south-west of Cardiff in the Bristol Channel) engage afterburners and set climb rate to 5,100fpm until FL300. Maintain 400kts. Concorde needs to gain altitude very quickly to become efficient.5. At FL300 decrease climb rate to 3,100fpm. Maintain 400kts.6. At FL322 start to increase speed within aircraft limits.7. At FL360 decrease climb rate to 1,300fpm. Continue to increase speed within limits.8. At FL432 or upon reaching M1.4 disengage afterburners and reduce climb rate to 1150fpm.9. At FL443 reduce climb rate to 350fpm. Continue to accelerate.10. At FL470 reduce climb rate to 200fpm and continue to accelerate. You should now be close to Mach 2.0.11. Upon reaching M2.02 engage autothrottle and maintain M2.02. Continue to cruise-climb up to FL530 - FL570 but ensure TMo remains with 127 degrees Celsius. If too hot, slow down or descend.12. At the other end (200 miles from JFK) reduce speed to 350kts before starting descent at 3,000fpm.Approach speed should be 210kts slowing to 190kts and 160kts on touchdown. Keep your nose up but not too much or you will stop moving forward and will drop vertically like a stone. Landing Concorde is an art!Hope that helps. More details and a flight plan are included in the docs.Cheers,

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

Hi Scott,<<,Beyond the real Concorde, yes, but not beyond the FS Concorde.>>The two are indistinguishable for me as I like to try and fly the FS version as closely as possible to the limitations of the real one.<>That's what Concorde does. Because of the amount of surface area of the delta wing it's impossible to stall (even the real one!). If you remember the awful Paris crash and the small footprint of the debris it was because the aircraft fell vertically because it couldn't stall like a conventional aircraft.It is difficult to fly this aircraft but that's why it has such a following. The challenge is tremendous!Cheers,

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

Hi Scott,<>Sorry but you'll never make it across the pond using those rules. The afterburners are only use at take-off and at the accel point until reaching M1.4 (M1.7 in the real world). Concorde has sufficient power to continue to cruise-climb to M2.02 from M1.7 without afterburners. The only aircraft in the world that can do this.See my other message for details on how to fly Concorde. It works - honest! :-)Cheers,

[Guest Scott Campbell]

Ray,It works for me.I'd like to have the thing work like the real aircraft (since I have the docs on how to do it) but I've never been able to get to FL600, Mach 2.04 without AB all the way.I've gone from Dulles to Heathrow, and from Honolulu to Sydney this way. However, I didn't have lots of time and made sure it worked, but when I ever get some time I can certainly practice flying the real way. Right now, I was just testing RC for the long flights and didn't have the time for a 747 or A340.Also, as far as I know, in the real world there's no way anyone is going out of any US airport using afterburners. The noise abatement rules don't allow it.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

Hi Boone,<>SHIFT + F4 to toggle them on/off. Bring up the throttle levers - the white lights illuminate when they're on.<>Search for 2K2JOYPA.ZIP over at flightsim.com.Cheers,

[Guest Scott Campbell]

The actual switches are on the Throttle Quad. The switches are hidden under the throttles. Push those up a tad and you'll see them.

[Guest Scott Campbell]

My apologies, yes AB's are engaged at TO, but then cut off after TO when throttles are pulled back for noise abatement.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

Hi Scott,<>I'm surprised that keeping the afterburners on for so long dosn't eat up all your fuel.I think you'd struggle to get to FL600 unless you climbed at 100-200fpm but the problem there is that you run out of miles before needing to descend :-( There's also the temperature issue but maybe only for the 100% realistic pilots ;-)<>I can understand that compromises are necessary sometimes so no problems with that.<>Well, the BA Concorde certainly uses afterburners on take-off (as they all do presumably) as they'd never get airborne otherwise.Back in '98 I was waiting for a connection at JFK when I heard a loud roar only to see the 2.30pm flight take-off back to Heathrow. It certainly had the afterburners engaged. Concorde has a special dispensation with the New York authorities.Cheers,

[Guest Scott Campbell]

Since this is being discussed, and Ray likes to fly like the real thing, I'll try to accurately list some basics. I'm sure Ray can add/correct where necessary. I need to practice more.JFK to Heathrow(Skipping programming and checking the INS and aircraft prep and engine start)(Concorde has no APU, so skipping the disengaging of external power and air after engine start)Drop nose to 5 degrees, just clearing the forward view for taxi.After being cleared for take-off, the standard "Concorde Countdown" is done (3 to 1, throttles), then full throttle and ABs applied.After Take-off, throttles are pulled back and AB's disengaged for noise abatement.When clearing around FL180 the nose is raised.Concorde climbs at Mach 0.95 3000fpm to FL270. Speed is kept below Mach 1 until past Nantucket Island.Afterburners and full throttle are applied, climbing around 3000fpm down to 1000 fpm. Fuel is now pumped to the tail.Automatically, the engine inlet doors close down at Mach 1.3, keeping the air intake flow to less than Mach 1.At Mach 1.7, AB's are disengaged. Engine will remain at 100% throttle.Mach 2 is achieved at 50,190 feet (or around FL510), about half-way.Concorde uses one of three special SST route tracks much further South from the 5 subsonic route tracks of the day.Concorde will vary from 56,000'-58.000' due to temperature variation, still climbing until TOD, and at Mach 2.04. Technically Concorde can go to 62,000' over Mach 2.2. The extra power is used to continue a shallow climb until descent (TOD).At around 30 degrees West, pilots will now do a calculation of correct position and report to Shanwich.Descent will begin at 150 miles from the Irish coast, by maintaining altitude with 1/3 throttle pullback. When Mach 1.55 is reached, descent to FL370 is begun at 70% power. It takes 100 miles to decelerate to Mach 1 from cruise.At Mach 1.25, Concorde naturally descends.Subsonic speed has to be reached 55 nautical miles from the Irish coast. At FL370, Concorde needs to be subsonic.Nose is lowered to 5 degrees again at about FL180-FL200.(skipped inflight reversers since it can't be done in FS)Initial approach speed is 200 knots, with touchdown at 160 knots.Landing angle is at about 11 degrees.Reversers stowed at 40 knots.Total time: 3.5 hours, about 25,000 gallons of fuel used (about the same as a 747 on this route)

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

Hi Scott,Thanks for posting lots of useful info. I can't find much wrong with what you've written. I am not a Concorde expert - I too have limited flying time and I need to fly it more. But, between the two of us I think the lads have plenty to encourage them to have a crack at a transatlantic flight.I've just completed a saved second half of my EGLL-KJFK Sierra November route. I'll give some details on the descent part of this and then comment on your info.Speed reduction to 350Kts IAS started at 41N69W at FL580, M2.02. After 2m 20s I started the descent at 3,000fpm passing FL500 at M1.4 after 5m 00s. FL400 was passed at M1.13 after 8m 20s. Subsonic flight commenced around FL310 (10m 00s).Descent continued through FL200 at M0.72 (15m 00s) and I levelled out at 10,000ft and reduced to 250kts (19m 00s). Due to winds at JFK I landed on Rwy 22R 31m 45s after ToD. Not the best of landings as I haven't flown Concorde much recently and it's quite different to a 767! :-)Now back to your info... <>This is slightly different at the UK end probably because of the distance to the accel point over the Bristol Channel (N5124,W00350) so the 400kt climb to FL280 is more gradual.<>This is the advantage of a sim where the FS version will happily cruise-climb when the ABs are switched off at M1.4.<>I suspect Mach 2 will be reached before half-way otherwise the passengers might be justifiably complaining ;-)Thanks for the interesting debate. Makes a change to our other topic ;-)Cheers,

[Guest Scott Campbell]

Ray,I have to do something other than testing RC and writing ACLoader 4 :-erks, otherwise I'd go stark raving loony (well, more than I am now). ;-)Now if only we could get Pete P to comment, we'd have something.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

Hi Scott,<>Agreed! It doesn't matter how good certain software is - too much exposure is draining and a change of aircraft is as good as a 2 week break in the Caribbean - well, almost! :-lol<>Don't see him here often. Probably too engrossed in other things! ;-)Cheers,

[Guest Scott Campbell]

Heya Ray,><something.>> >>Don't see him here often. Probably too engrossed in other >things! ;-)Yeah, like handling the Concordes! :-lol

[Ray Proudfoot 8,927]

Hi Scott,<>Of course! :-doh BA002 is just about on finals as I type this. Lucky sod!Cheers,