Project AI works

[Kosta 122]

LOL!!Exactly this number "1,400" I'm trying to avoid! I already had that idea, but it was extremely apalling since this would take like ummmmm......2 months to complete? :)

[bic 44]

>LOL!!>>Exactly this number "1,400" I'm trying to avoid! I already had>that idea, but it was extremely apalling since this would take>like ummmmm......2 months to complete? :)>I may be able do it programmatically. I would program it to use PAI textures. It will take some extra coding to do it, but it can probably be done. Of course if SB3 is released tomorrow, this would be mute.

[Kosta 122]

Hmm, nice! That would an awesome thing if it could be done. And concerning SB3, I don't think it will be released tomorrow. The job has been going for months now...

[bic 44]

I put something together in a couple hours. The original CSL file doesn't use proper ac identification such as B762, instead they used B767. This kind of borks the engine. But a simple work around by using only first three for searching helped some. The results are this:78 total csl textures to be replaced13 replaced by plain jane search.4 replaced by work around search.The following were replaced:A320A340AT72B727B737B744B744B767BA46DC10DC9DH8BAT72SF34SF34SF34A320The replacement numbers aren't staggerring considering there are 78 textures with the original CSL textures. Looking through those that it couldn't find a suitable match in PAI listing, most are either general aviation or military.I haven't done any testing yet. I also need to test copy the PAI models and texture into the CSL directory inside the script. I am not sure how worthwhile it is distribute this since it's such a pain to go through. However, as everyone knows the Boeing series aircraft above are very popular online and any attempt remove the old textures would be worthwhile.BTW, I released a new PAI integrate into SB yesterday. It adds another 150 textures for a total of 550. And the manufacturer is listed first instead of second, which makes finding your ac in the drop a lot easier. Also, I updated the script to create the SMS file for Squawkbox 3. A sample beta SMS file for PAI is included. It's called pai-sb3.zip.

[Kosta 122]

Hey Bic, both are absolutely great news!If you could, it would be really nice if you could send me the file for the replacements? I can test it too...and writing emails is probably easier...And of course, I will try out the new sb3 file!My email is: Word Not Allowed.audioengineer@gmx.net

[mganz121 159]

ScottMy initial comments (on a local newsgroup) to your file were if anything, too down to earth to repeat here. I, along with many others personally have a problem with the various CSL files that have been doing the rounds. The reason is quite simple and well documented in this forum.Simply put, you only see the ammended textures in any ammended CSL file PROVIDED all users have those same textures (in this case 450MB worth????)IF you do not have those very same textures and an identical CSL_ICAO file, you will see a reflection of yourself as I did recently after suffering a miserable, stuttering, slideshow of an approach .... only to find 7 YES 7 images of the PSS Airbus I happened to be in! It was quite obvious that I had stumbled across a group of people with an ammended CSL file that did not match mine or the 25000 others who use the official CSL file structure. Since posting my comments in my local forum, others have reported the same with the same disastrous effect!I have had a look at the CSL file in your package and can see some massive changes to the structure which conflict with the official CSL structure. Unfortunately, most people assume that provided they list e.g. a listed AA or Brittania 737 in their flightplan, that is what others will see them as. This could not be further from the truth and only adds to the well documented frame rate problems and seeing "only your own aircraft" recorded in this very forum.As mentioned, I have had experience of being in the same area as others who are using an ammended CSL structure and it is not a nice experience, spoiling a three hour flight.If you wish I can forward you privately the email addresses of the original CSL authors so that you can work through these issues. Alternatively I am sure that there is a process at VATSIM where compatibility issues are checked and worked through before general release.Good luck with the project and I hope these issues can be overcome in a format that has the least impact on other users of the network.ANZ121 >I put something together in a couple hours. The original CSL>file doesn't use proper ac identification such as B762,>instead they used B767. This kind of borks the engine. But a>simple work around by using only first three for searching>helped some. >>The results are this:>>78 total csl textures to be replaced>13 replaced by plain jane search.>4 replaced by work around search.>>The following were replaced:>A320>A340>AT72>B727>B737>B744>B744>B767>BA46>DC10>DC9>DH8B>AT72>SF34>SF34>SF34>A320>>The replacement numbers aren't staggerring considering there>are 78 textures with the original CSL textures. >>Looking through those that it couldn't find a suitable match>in PAI listing, most are either general aviation or military.>>I haven't done any testing yet. I also need to test copy the>PAI models and texture into the CSL directory inside the>script. >>I am not sure how worthwhile it is distribute this since it's>such a pain to go through. However, as everyone knows the>Boeing series aircraft above are very popular online and any>attempt remove the old textures would be worthwhile.>>>BTW, I released a new PAI integrate into SB yesterday. It>adds another 150 textures for a total of 550. And the>manufacturer is listed first instead of second, which makes>finding your ac in the drop a lot easier. Also, I updated the>script to create the SMS file for Squawkbox 3. A sample beta>SMS file for PAI is included. It's called pai-sb3.zip.

[Guest kiwiflyer]

Sour grapes by someone I see? Looking at this local group your refering to you seem to be the only person experiancing problems! The only others to report faults were in high volume Airspace where one would expect a large framerate hit.Of course being a supporter of CSL you would say theres a problem. Having some decent looking aircraft out there flying with you enhances the pleasure of flying online. At least these files unlike CSL are compatible with FS9 much better.Seeing how this project is in the early stages and the only realistic way it can be tested and problems ironed out is online, At least give it a chance. CSL is not the be all and end to all!

[russellj 2]

kiwiflyer,You obviously have not read the same local group the Dave is referring to.RegardsRussell Jourdain (NZL007/ZK-RHJ)P.S. I note that you haven't signed your name - I assume in the interests of anonymity.

[bic 44]

>Scott>>My initial comments (on a local newsgroup) to your file were>if anything, too down to earth to repeat here. I, along with>many others personally have a problem with the various CSL>files that have been doing the rounds. The reason is quite>simple and well documented in this forum.Where is this "local newsgroup"? >>Simply put, you only see the ammended textures in any ammended>CSL file PROVIDED all users have those same textures (in this>case 450MB worth????)>>IF you do not have those very same textures and an identical>CSL_ICAO file, you will see a reflection of yourself as I did>recently after suffering a miserable, stuttering, slideshow of>an approach .... only to find 7 YES 7 images of the PSS Airbus>I happened to be in! It was quite obvious that I had stumbled>across a group of people with an ammended CSL file that did>not match mine or the 25000 others who use the official CSL>file structure. Since posting my comments in my local forum,>others have reported the same with the same disastrous>effect!Well, Sb2 apparently when it looks for a suitable texture, if it cannot find a texture, it defaults to your aircraft. Everyone knows this is a bad idea. But we cannot change that now.>>I have had a look at the CSL file in your package and can see>some massive changes to the structure which conflict with the>official CSL structure. Well, the specs were never published, so a lot of people have hacked things up in order to get rid of green textures, including myself. Additionally, A LOT of VAs want their textures in CSL. Many probably don't have the know how to do it. But rather decided to wait.>provided they list e.g. a listed AA or Brittania 737 in their>flightplan, that is what others will see them as. This could>not be further from the truth and only adds to the well>documented frame rate problems and seeing "only your own>aircraft" recorded in this very forum.In the readme it states: "Again, the last step requires you to select your ac in the flight plan." There's a drop down list there they need to select their ac from. That list only has next to it "FLIGHT PLAN". Anyhow, I should have added "drop down list". I don't know how much more clear that can be.>>As mentioned, I have had experience of being in the same area>as others who are using an ammended CSL structure and it is>not a nice experience, spoiling a three hour flight.>>If you wish I can forward you privately the email addresses of>the original CSL authors so that you can work through these>issues.I would be willing to speak with them.> Alternatively I am sure that there is a process at>VATSIM where compatibility issues are checked and worked>through before general release.>The vatsim.net/prc has it listed as an "additonal tool". So it must have been approved by someone to make it there.

[mganz121 159]

>Sour grapes by someone I see?Hello Colin. It seems that an attempt at anonimity is beyond your capabilties :-) Sour grapes? Not in the least. But I do have a concern that the proposed changes to the CSL files will send us straight back to the problems we used to have when using SB with FS98 and FS2000, in other words a reduction of performance due to multiple images of your own aircraft. This of course is before your time as you are a relative newbie to online simmimg.>Looking at this local group your refering to you seem to be the only person experiancing problems! The only others to report faults were in high volume Airspace where one would expect a large framerate hit.As the thread started yesterday (5 inputs and 2 complaints) you are to a certain extent quite correct. However you are oblivious to the implications of a general release of an ammended CSL_IVAO file that does not match the official release. Your comment "high volume airspace where one would expect a large framerate hit" demonstrates either your naievity or the very simple fact that you are one of these people that do not care about the implications of your actions in a shared environement. It was for these reasons that CSL was developed in the format that it was and is currently being improved upon for the impending SB3 release. Go and read the CSL documentation fully and see how it works and you will then fully understand the ramifications. Two of us have experienced this and it takes us back to FS98 multiplayer problems.>Of course being a supporter of CSL you would say theres a>problem.A comment such as this makes me realise that if your IQ was any lower you would need watering! I am a supporter of anything that makes the online experience better. If this new release is ammended to work in conjunction with the official release without forcing the majority who have not upgraded (note 450MB worth) to see their own aircraft (note FS95/98/2000 days), then I will fully support this.Yes I am a personal friend of one of the authors. However unlike you with your personal (and somewhat childish) vendetta against him, I would not let that friendship sway my judgement about what is right for the users overall. In fact I go on record saying that the new VIP3 files to be released with SB3 leave the CSL (and project AI) files for dead. Such is the advancement in technology in a few short years. >Having some decent looking aircraft out there flying with you>enhances the pleasure of flying online.I agree> At least these files unlike CSL are compatible with FS9 much better.And this is where my point goes right over your head and you fall into the category "that they do not know, or they neither care that, they are screwing up SB for everyone else" I alluded to in my original post. Yes they look better in FS9, but the included CSL_IVAO file is not compatible with the official release i.e the version that the majority (25000+) of online users are currently using! THEY will see numerous reflections of their own aircraft and experience reduced frame rate problems unless they also download and install the project ai textures. This can however be fixed by modifying the CSL_IVAO file that comes with this release.>Seeing how this project is in the early stages and the only>realistic way it can be tested and problems ironed out is>online, At least give it a chance.And a proper closed beta is the way to do this rather than a general release in the AVSIM files section. This will ensure network compatibility for ALL users and progress rather than a step backwards. >CSL is not the be all and end to all!I never said it was. My concerns focus on the current incompatibility of this release for the majority of users and the resulting impact of this. I do however understand your motives for this post.ANZ121

[bic 44]

>>Sour grapes by someone I see?>>Hello Colin. It seems that an attempt at anonimity is beyond>your capabilties :-) Sour grapes? Not in the least. But I do>have a concern that the proposed changes to the CSL files will>send us straight back to the problems we used to have when>using SB with FS98 and FS2000, in other words a reduction of>performance due to multiple images of your own aircraft. This>of course is before your time as you are a relative newbie to>online simmimg.>>>Looking at this local group your refering to you seem to be>the only person experiancing problems! The only others to>report faults were in high volume Airspace where one would>expect a large framerate hit.>>As the thread started yesterday (5 inputs and 2 complaints)>you are to a certain extent quite correct. However you are>oblivious to the implications of a general release of an>ammended CSL_IVAO file that does not match the official>release. >>Your comment "high volume airspace where one would expect a>large framerate hit" demonstrates either your naievity or the>very simple fact that you are one of these people that do not>care about the implications of your actions in a shared>environement. It was for these reasons that CSL was developed>in the format that it was and is currently being improved upon>for the impending SB3 release. >>Go and read the CSL documentation fully and see how it works>and you will then fully understand the ramifications. Two of>us have experienced this and it takes us back to FS98>multiplayer problems.>>>Of course being a supporter of CSL you would say theres a>>problem.>>A comment such as this makes me realise that if your IQ was>any lower you would need watering! I am a supporter of>anything that makes the online experience better. If this new>release is ammended to work in conjunction with the official>release without forcing the majority who have not upgraded>(note 450MB worth) to see their own aircraft (note>FS95/98/2000 days), then I will fully support this.>>Yes I am a personal friend of one of the authors. However>unlike you with your personal (and somewhat childish) vendetta>against him, I would not let that friendship sway my judgement>about what is right for the users overall. In fact I go on>record saying that the new VIP3 files to be released with SB3>leave the CSL (and project AI) files for dead. Such is the>advancement in technology in a few short years.> The VIP3 files were supposed to be released LAST YEAR.PAI has been out for a while, problems have been fixed. Some models are in version 2 now.Why do there "have to be" two model "plugins"? It seems pretty obvious that duplicate work is being done by PAI, VIP and even AI AARDVARK and so on.The painters should pool their talents and efforts together to create even more textures. I am sure the textures would be the best around.>>Having some decent looking aircraft out there flying with>you>>enhances the pleasure of flying online.>>I agree>>> At least these files unlike CSL are compatible with FS9>much better.>>And this is where my point goes right over your head and you>fall into the category "that they do not know, or they neither>care that, they are screwing up SB for everyone else" I>alluded to in my original post. >>Yes they look better in FS9, but the included CSL_IVAO file is>not compatible with the official release i.e the version that>the majority (25000+) of online users are currently using!>THEY will see numerous reflections of their own aircraft and>experience reduced frame rate problems unless they also>download and install the project ai textures. This can however>be fixed by modifying the CSL_IVAO file that comes with this>release.>>>Seeing how this project is in the early stages and the only>>realistic way it can be tested and problems ironed out is>>online, At least give it a chance.>>And a proper closed beta is the way to do this rather than a>general release in the AVSIM files section. This will ensure>network compatibility for ALL users and progress rather than a>step backwards. >>>CSL is not the be all and end to all!>>I never said it was. My concerns focus on the current>incompatibility of this release for the majority of users and>the resulting impact of this. I do however understand your>motives for this post.>>ANZ121 >Please identify, define and describe in complete detail what incompatibilities you are experiencing. Include as much specific detailed information as possible.

[mganz121 159]

>>Please identify, define and describe in complete detail what>incompatibilities you are experiencing. Include as much>specific detailed information as possible.>Hi Scott, Rather than us running around in circles as I have not installed your ammended files, let me ask you a simple question based on your ammended CSL_ICAO.csv file included with your download. I am sure this will clarify the situation once and for allTo make it easier for you to answer my question let us also make the following and most likely of assumptions:-You are using your ammended CSL_ICAO.csv file (the file that sends the code of the aircraft you have elected in your flightplan to the server to enable me to see you)You file a flightplan nominating yourself as a Virgin Blue B738 (1178 in your CSL_IVAO.csv file) and that data is sent over the network.I am using the official SB and CSL files (as are most users on the various networks) whilst waiting for the new release.From the network data recieved at my end (about what you are flying), which texture folder will it point to and what will I see you as?? Look forward to your answer.CheersANZ121