Step climbs and descents

[Guest]

I'll try to fly as realistic as possible. There's many controllers who don't know or even care about the route information of aircraft going through their airspace. Especially, almost everyone doesn't know what means "AAL/N0455F320" in my plan. If I ask a step, I'll get some arguing answer that denies the possibility of steps in VATSIM. This is not a problem with students only, I've argued even with a supervisor for my opinion.What's the policy of VATSIM headquarters for this?Regards, Matti Kemppainen (811424).

[Guest]

Just thought that there is some ATS routes that are not within the rule of even and odd flight levels (for example, even flight level for heading 050). So, what's the policy with these routes?

[Vulcan 14]

Matti,There certainly are some routes which do not obey the odd/even rules.UN866 over Spain was mentioned in one of the ng's recently where the paper charts show odd levels from a w'pt into Spanish airspace (South bound) and even levels upto this w'pt t'other way (North bound).Someone did mention there are other areas that use East/West rather than North/South divisions for even/odd levels.This can cause a problem for those of us who do not have paper charts but rely on FSNav for flight planning.As to step climbs I have never had a problem requesting a higher level once at cruise. Only once was I asked to amend my flight plan to indicate my new cruise level.HTH

[Guest]

>As to step climbs I have never had a problem requesting a >higher level once at cruise. Only once was I asked to amend >my flight plan to indicate my new cruise level. I have been asked many times where to or why I want climb.. Isn't it enough, when this is in the route section of my plan is (this is just an example flight):EESTI UL855 PEKOV UM608 SORLA UM611 KOLJA UM864 NONSA/N0455F310 UM725 LUROS/N0452F320 UZ36 ETIMA/N0449F330 UZ36 VIBUG UM736 BZO UM984 LUSILWhen I say about my route markings, I get an answer like "I don't understand" or "You cannot ask things like those in VATSIM! Those are for real life only, you jackass!"This is what I mean.

[Vulcan 14]

>EESTI UL855 PEKOV UM608 SORLA UM611 KOLJA UM864 NONSA/N0455F310 UM725 LUROS/N0452F320 UZ36 ETIMA/N0449F330 UZ36 VIBUG UM736 BZO UM984 LUSIL ;) There was a thread in one of ng's about entering levels and speed into the FP and although it is done in the real world I don't think it is seen very often on vatsim.I did ask in the ng what s/ware gives you the step climb points while stil at the flight planning stage and no one could think of any s/ware that would do it, which is why I don't bother.I know I *could* work out an approximation given TOW, fuel burn, winds etc but by the time I've worked all that out it would be next day before I could fly :( Out of interest, do you get questioned about this in any particular Country or FIR?BTW I should state that I am only a virtual pilot and not a controller or rw pilot/ATC.

[Guest]

>There was a thread in one of ng's about entering levels and >speed into the FP and although it is done in the real world >I don't think it is seen very often on vatsim. I do it more like in real life. :)>I know I *could* work out an approximation given TOW, fuel >burn, winds etc but by the time I've worked all that out it >would be next day before I could fly :( Usually I spend about two hours for planning the flight. So it takes its own time, but it is more realistic.>Out of interest, do you get questioned about this in any >particular Country or FIR? I've had these problems mostly in Germany, because I fly in German airspace often. But this problem is moveable: If I flew more for example in Spain or Norway, there would be the same problem.>BTW I should state that I am only a virtual pilot and not a >controller or rw pilot/ATC. I'm a controller (I'll get CTR rating soon) and pilot with total of over 1100 hours in VATSIM.

[Guest Stamatis]

"...and no one could think of any s/ware that would do it,"Not true :-) I replied.Stamatis

[Guest ielchitz]

Matti,A few things to consider.1) Try and understand that not everyone knows how to read "/N0455F320" in your flight strip. Usually all it takes is a little explanation. Even better - you can "educate" people on how to read these.2) "I have been asked many times where to or why I want climb"You still should specify what altitude you are looking to climb to. "center we'd like to climb to FL320" should be more than enough. I am not sure why anyone should question your request for higher as for the reason "why".3) When I say about my route markings, I get an answer like:"I don't understand" - then teach them how to read it."You cannot ask things like those in VATSIM! Those are for real life only, you jackass!"- This is uncalled for and plainly rude - no controllers or pilots should be speaking to each other like this.4) Due to some limitations in the Controller software (ProController and not ASRC) once your flight strip exceeds a certain number of characters in the route field, it becomes unreadable.Now I have no idea what the VATSIM OFFICIAL policy on this is, but I step climb ALL THE TIME and never have any problems with it - and before you ask - YES, I often file real world plans with the Speed/Altitude changes. Sometimes I file for my highest altitude, sometimes I file for my initial altitude, I have never had a problem anywhere, ever with this issue.Just yesterday evening I filed from CYYZ to KSFO for FL390. Obviously there was no way I was climbing up to FL390 weighing 309,000 lbs. The center controller told me "ACA301, Climb and Maintain FL390". I responded with "we're only going to go to FL350 for now" and he came back with "roger maintain FL350".Easy as 1 - 2 - 3, regardless whether you are a vatsim pilot with 1100 hours or 5 hours, an S1 or an I3.To me it sounds like you have just run into someone on a bad day.Sincerely,Ian Elchitz CYWG

[Vulcan 14]

Stamatis,IIRC you quoted s/ware that would do the calculations for rw, but not for simming.Forgive me if my memory is wrong on this, quite likely considering I could not remember who contributed to the thread :-)

[Guest Stamatis]

Hey, don't take me seriously Vulcan, I was only teasing you, hence the "smiley"."IIRC you quoted s/ware that would do the calculations for rw, but not for simming."You memory serves you right. One thing though: The software does the calculations, period. It does not care whether it will be used for simming or RW. This is up to you and your... pocket :-)For a certain period I was subscribed to Jeppesen's Dataplan and was obtaining real world airliners Flight Plans for my sim flights. Identical to those used by airlines. When this joke got really expensive I reverted to other software :-) :-)But I had step climbs in my plans while it lasted !! :-)What is more feasible is to use the appropriate Performance Tables which usually contain a STEP-UP CLIMB table that will tell you at which GW you should be leaving a certain FL for another one. Quite simple to look at and use.Thankfully, now I am only "flying" one type, the B737-700, which can reach its service ceiling (FL410) at MTOW, so no need for such calcs anymore.Stamatis

[Guest]

>Matti, >>A few things to consider. >>1) Try and understand that not everyone knows how to read >"/N0455F320" in your flight strip. Usually all it takes is a >little explanation. Even better - you can "educate" people >on how to read these. >"I don't understand" >>- then teach them how to read it. I explain this thing very often, but I just wrote the message here because I don't want to explain it all the time or listen controller shouting to me that I have no rights to do this in VATSIM.I've been considered this.

[Vulcan 14]

>Hey, don't take me seriously Vulcan, I was only teasing you, hence the "smiley".