SID's and STAR's

[Vulcan 14]

From the examples you give it sounds as if ATC are using older charts than the ones you have.If this happens at one particular airport or FIR I suggest you contact the relevant person and ask which charts you should be using.When you get your clearance and you don't have the charts for the SIDs/STARs given ask for clarification. If only one revision out you may find that nothing significant has changed, maybe just an updated note or a slight change in radials to take account of a change magnetic variation.HTH

[Guest petepawn]

Hello everyone!I am an eager VATSIM-flyer and have a question:What the h*ll is with SID's & STAR's? I always try to find the newest charts and have the most recent NavData (currently 0313), but still every clearance I get from the live ATC is sth different from that I can find.. i.e3V instead of 4V, 2F instead of 2G... etc.I get these clearances and look for my charts and look for my FMDC ( they have different clrs often..) but the one I get is neither the newest AIRAC nor the one to found on the charts of the vacc in question..So, what is the right procedure? The one offered by the ATc ( not available anywhere..)? Or are the procedures meant to be ignored as unusable..? Or are the charts always incomplete ? I'm asking this to improve me as pilot, not to be offensive.RegardsPetteri PulkkinenVihtiFinland

[Guest RS-Teuge]

Hi Petteri,Dont jump of the roof yet Altough airac data may differ, remember an airac release remains valid for only 28 days. this means that something could change every 28 days. ofcourse an entire sid cannot, these have to be published in all AIP's first but.But all can go pretty fast. so sometimes its hard to keep track of all the right sids and stars. But, the hardcopies you have of the sids and stars in your jeppesen binder for example are rarely flown by the numbers.This goes especially for the ILS approaches.Normally it depends on traffic. if there is little traffic in the air, and that happens often using VATSIM. controllers have the option to give you direct vectors to VOR/NDB's or fixes that take you to the beginning of the ILS sooner. many times its not necessary to fly the entire SID. e.g.Departing EGLL via BrookmansPark VOR. many times when traffic is light, you are cleared to CLN(Clacton) direct instead of flying first to Brookman(BPK vor).The charts are there for you when you suffer a complete radio failure.it doesnt say they need to be flown by the numbers.Well hope this clears some stuff.Kind regardsGerbert.ATPL trainee pilot.

[Vulcan 14]

While all you say is true Gerbert remmeber that if you file a SID or STAR, or accept one from ATC, you will be expected to fly that procedure, see the relevant section of the PRC for clarification. If you do not have the correct charts you cannot do that.My advice would be to seek clarification from the controller in case the charts you have match his/her procedure.Ask for a location where you can get the relevant charts.Refuse the SID/STAR and ask for vectors. "EGLL_GND, unable, no corresponding charts, request vectors. BCA01"However I still think the best bet, if this happens at one airport or area, is to contact a VATSIM staff member at that location and ask where you can get the correct charts so you are ready next time you fly there.Petteri, It would help if you gave me the location where you have this problem.Rgds

[hopskip 253]

That's why American/Australian sids are easier lol. instead of BPK3C sid you get simply "KAMBA-3 DEP" if you get assigned a KAMBA-2 departure you know its just the normal KAMBA-3 just the old one, in that case I often read back and just note "Cleared KAMBA-3 departure, confirm KAMBA-3 departure, Woolongong transition.." etc. Sometimes they don't even make a note of it, sometimes they say, "Roger, KAMBA-3 is fine" etc. With the european charts you might have 2 paralell runways and you get 4 different SIDS, but all named after the same waypoint. BPK for instance, so you get the BPK1A BPK2E bla bla bla. The aussie way is 2 paralell runways, flightplan going to WOL thence the route, you get KAMBA-3 departure WOL transition (or KAT transition or RADAR transition) the DEENA-3 departure WOL transition (OR RIC Transition or KAT transition) the WOL-9 departure (With WOL Transition or GLF tranition or Radar Transition) and the SYD-1 departure with Radar Transition or the MARUB-3 departure with WOL transition or ENTRA transition... each different STAR with it's own unique name, available for only one runway each, but able to transition to a number of different airways. In effect you can almost ignore the number, it's the KAMBA departure, and it's still almost the same (bar maybe a new restriction, or radial, or in the case of the DEENA departure, a new waypoint name, and a turn later (12nm) than before (with DEENA-2 it was 10nm) for the requirements of vatsim the two are almost interchangable. not in the real world though of course..

[Martin Georg EDDF 0]

Well,In most cases it doesn

[Guest petepawn]

Ok. Thanks for the responses.To Vulcan: This has happened to me in so many airports that I do not want to name them specifically.In one airport I was even accused of not having new charts - I had those just as new as the download info on the controller's own ATIS told..And to add gasoline to the fire... In that same country the controller kept on saying that my SID was too old... LOL. I had that procedure in 2 latest NAvData Airacs and the one he insisted on being the new one was indeed to be found on 10 months old charts and in older NavData...But all in all: Vatsim functions well and offers a great enhancement to us simflyers..Happy New Year and let's meet in the skies!P. PulkkinenVihtiFinland

[Vulcan 14]

Petteri,>This has happened to me in so many airports that I do not want to name them specifically