I GIVE UP ON VATSIM!!!!

[Guest schmidtrock]

Ok, You are real close and are actually able to fly on vatsim now were u to just use text. The AVC should be loggin u in automatically if you tick the "use RW " box when logging in to SB. However, in AVC i believe the tab is adjust, or pilot info can't remember, u need to make sure your callsign is the same as the one you logged into SB with. I.E. my callsign normally is FJL102 this all has to match in the AVC for it to login. A detractor for this otherwise fine improvement on what we had with RW. IMHO of course. So make sure everything is the same in AVC as it is in SB when u login, user id, password id, and Callsign. Hope this helps !

[Guest Agrajag]

Well, it's now 7pm and I want to fly and there is one controller for the entire Northeast (Kennedy APR). Miami has 2 controllers, no LAX at all on the west and sporadic in a few other places.I fly generally the KingAir 350 between major airports.In 4 flights so far I've never had more than a single controller handle me. The part about shifting my interest in also important to me. I didn't buy a plasma TV because burn-in is so prevalent on them that you really need to shift they way you watch TV or risk the TV. Not me. I choose solutions that work the way I work and in this case I don't think I'm all that abnormal. The end result is that my VATSIM experience, instead of resulting in being impressed, pushed me to buy Radar Contact 3. I may not be happy with it either but that's another discussion.I do thank you for the dialogue. Everyone involved does seem very nice and willing to help. I just realize I'm far from the first or last person who will have this opinion and I think that's a shame.

[Guest Agrajag]

>Once your username and password are entered into Squawkbox,>they stay there, and your username stays in AVC as well.That is a help but their own website requires that you remember your password. Allowing users to change their own password is a rather basic feature these days. So is picking your own username but that one I can understand a bit more.>require access to the internet, and your firewall needs to be>configured to permit them access. This is not exclusive to>VATSIM - it applies to any application on your PC.Battlefield 1942 tells you right in the manual what ports need to be opened. Other programs I have tell me the same thing. That VATSIM is like other programs, I agree. Why can't it be more like them and simply note which ports it requires as clearly those ports are not known until you fail otherwise.>hand side (Use RW for voice) is checked. When you press the>"Connect" button, AVC will then load automatically.Thanks!>I use the easier option of double-clicking the controller in>the ATC directory, which tunes the radio automatically.Where did you find that documented???>It doesn't need to be. When you push your PTT (Push To Talk)>key, and keep it pressed, your microphone is live, and when>you release it, the mic is muted.Not so. At least not here. Yes, it's muted with regard to the program but it's not muted to your computer system. I leave my microphone muted (it's muted by default in fact) because otherwise I would constantly hear myself typing on my keyboard through my headset and such. I have been involved in soundcard technology at a professional level for most of my adult life. MANY applications are aware of this and simply check the status of that setting and control it directly so that when you do talk, it unmutes, system wide) and then mutes when you done. All SB is doing is ignoring any sounds until you hit push to talk. It's not the same thing.>Frankly, I agree entirely. I find I don't use them, except>for .msg.Sure sign of a legacy product. >Remember, the controllers online are not providing a paid-for>service, and there are times and areas where there is noI fully understand but, and I mean this in a nice way, that isn't my problem. Do you follow? It's a nasty catch-22 I fully agree but for now, you pretty much have to change your flying preferences if you want to get a better VATSIM experience and as I said to someone else, I make a point of not choosing things that require me to change the way I work or play. I am not alone there. I like to fly out of Philly and in the 4 days I've been looking there has yet to be ANY coverage what-so-ever there. The best I can get is a SINGLE controller out of NYC covering Kennedy.>That's disappointing. ATC is normally very professional. Are>you sure you weren't receiving a private message from>someone?Yep. I'm sure. But hey, it was around 5am so that I wouldn't hold against the initiative.>I can see what you mean when the skies are empty, but does the>FS ATC ever help you with a routing or flight level if you've>made a mistake, or ask you to turn quickly to avoid a>conflict, or thank you for executing a hold procedure well? Absolutely not. That's what I came to VATSIM for and I got slight hints of that (a new VATSIM phenomenon is forgetting to click SB and turning off features through typing) when I managed to turn off my prop sync, didn't realize it and had my first missed approach at Kennedy (due to the problem I couldn't keep the plane from pulling hard left and just assumed it was nasty low wind). The controller was very helpful.>I think the key to succeeding with VATSIM is to make sure you>read each document, tutorial and readme, start to finish. My argument is that this shouldn't be necessary. A software solution should be provided that negates the need for at least 80% of what's needed today. My main vocation is in game development (mangement, not coding) and know a more intuitive product could be developed. It just hasn't yet and I really believe that's holding back the VATSIM community. The current solution is very cobbled together and dated and that combination makes for unnecessary confusion. >Keep trying, when it gets going it truly is worth all the>effort.I will but as I also said somewhere else, the whole experience, instead of winning me over, pushed me to buy Radar Contact. I may end up not liking it either. At this point I don't know. It has its limitations too. Perhaps FS 2010 or SB version 6 will be what I'm looking for.

[Guest fspilotguy.tk]

>I think that I'm getting real close to using VATSIM. Each>time I start up I go through the FSUIPC "register an>application" process and that seems to eliminate any error>message with the squawkbox startup.You should not have to do this, you only need to do it once. When you enter the code for SB in to FSUIPC make sure you enter LWVQ 7I2V 9GPB that is an i not a 1 between the 7 and 2 most people make that mistake and its a 2 not a Z. Read the FSUIPC set-up guide on the Vatsim Pilot Training site, you'll see a screen shot of what you should be seeing.>I'm not really sure what they are talking about here. I've>changed my callsign with FS and Squawkbox. And, am I not>already logged onto a VATSIM server after I start Squawkbox?>I've gone through the PRC AVC intall tutorial several times,>along with the AVC adobe user guide. I think I've done>everything properly in setting AVC up.>>Some additional info is that when I start AVC it gives a>"Connected!" message before the "authentication failed">message. Also, there seems to be a default server listed in>the connect line but the large window below that is always>blank. (The picture in the AVC adobe user's guide showed a>list of servers filling the large window.)>>Can anyone help me? As always, any suggestions at this point>are sincerely appreciated. You have to be logged in to Vatsim with Squawkbox before AVC can connect, and you MUST use the same callsign on Vatsim as you do with AVC letter for letter space for space or it will not work, Go look at the AVC set-up in the Vatsim Pilot Training again you'll see what I mean.

[ChandlerL 3]

For what it's worth, it's 10:00pm EST and since 8:00pm EST, the New York Area has had the following controllers in place:La Guardia Clearance DeliveryKennedy Clearance DeliveryKennedy TowerNewark TowerNew York ApproachNew York CenterThe Oakland/Los Angeles and Atlanta areas are also very well staffed.VATSIM has a bit of a learning curve and it does require some computer knowledge. It WILL get better as applications are updated (Squawkbox, etc.). What I can assure you is that there are many pilots and controllers on-line, right now, that are having a fulfilling experience. The positive anecdotes from simpilots are what convinced me to join up a number of years ago-- and I've never looked back at MSFS ATC since.Give us an update on the latest issues you're experiencing and let's see where we're at. It seems like you're starting to get it figured out-- Once you do, it all becomes reflex.

[Guest Agrajag]

Thanks Chandler.I'm still very critical of the current situation with VATSIM. Yes, it has a lot to offer but I still believe it is currently its own worst enemy. Virtually nothing about VATSIM is easy or intuitive and that has much less to do with the complexity of the concept than fans point out. Aside from that, I am getting going and I've now gotten a solid mic (the STAND-ALONE USB Logitech microphone is excellent and only $30 while their $50 USB headset/mic combo was complete junk, go figure) that finally got me a positive response from AVC setup. Again, note that all my other mic's never had trouble with other software but hey, in the end I'm even better off and more current as well as less soundcard dependent (however, that does come at the cost of overhead as the soundcard was handling recording and now the processor is).The points I outlined are still concerns but I am getting over the hurdles. Now "I" am becoming the limiting factor. I've flown only props and VFR for YEARS (going back to FS 1.0) and only started flying IFR with the addition of semi-useful built-in ATC in FS2002. MS ATC always gives the same routes and such and has never thrown me a curve I wasn't able to handle. Real controllers, doing more realistic things are throwing me intersections (never flew one) stars/sids (no idea there) and even VOR-to-VOR, they're giving me VOR's that are not the paths MS ATC gave on the same flights (nothing wrong with that AT ALL) and I now realize I have NO idea of how to go about finding them and such short of getting charts for everywhere in the world (since VATSIM often pushes you to fly anywhere solid coverage can be found) and then manually looking them all up. Any help on where to get started on these concepts would be greatly appreciated.

[ChandlerL 3]

>MS ATC always gives the same routes and such and has never>thrown me a curve I wasn't able to handle. Real controllers,>doing more realistic things are throwing me intersections>(never flew one) stars/sids (no idea there) and even>VOR-to-VOR, they're giving me VOR's that are not the paths MS>ATC gave on the same flights (nothing wrong with that AT ALL)>and I now realize I have NO idea of how to go about finding>them and such short of getting charts for everywhere in the>world (since VATSIM often pushes you to fly anywhere solid>coverage can be found) and then manually looking them all up.>>Ahh now see? This is where things get interesting, and you'll begin to see how much you can learn with the benefit of human interaction. I'm glad you've got things going. However, now you need some help in moving forward so let get started:For one thing, you are not required to fly a DP/STAR on VATSIM. Simply instruct the ATC that you don't have charts. The easy way to do this is when you file your flight plan- in the remarks section, put in "NO CHARTS" Usually an ATC who's not going crazy with traffic will then give you simple vectors.Let's say you DO want to learn this stuff. Let's jump in:SIDS - (S)tandard (I)nstrument (D)eparture procedure. Now known as DPs - (D)eparture (P)rocedures. They're the same thing. DP = SID = DP. :) So what does it mean? The best way to see it from a beginner's perspective is this: SIDS/DPs are like tunnels-in-the-sky that your departing airport want you to fly through. The reason why they have this in the real world is for a number of reasons:(not in order)- Provides pre-planned paths that aircraft will go through giving a much need ordered nature (read, safe!) to major airports (for a great example of this, think John F. Kennedy, La Guardia, and Newark Airport being in very close proximity, and you can begin to understand why the FAA utilizes SIDS). It would be chaos, otherwise. Imagine the poor ATC attempting to keep so many aircraft from getting too intimate with each other.- Reduces ATC/Pilot interaction because SIDS/DPs can be given as a single name rather than a laundry list of "Do this, then that, then that, then that, etc." Rather, Clearance could, instead, say to the pilot "...Cleared to KBOS via LAGUARDIA9 departure..." Since the LAGUARDIA9 departure is explained on a chart (read, pre-planned), the pilot understands what ATC is requesting of him. - Noise abatement (People on the ground complain if it gets noisy, SIDS/DPs attempt to handle this situation by restricting airspeed, regulating climb rates, or avoiding certain areas completely).Now with the above in mind, we come to "So, what's a STAR?"STAR - (S)tandard (T)erminal (AR)rival: It's like a SID/DP however it's instructions provide an aircraft with the approach "tunnels" for the same reasons mentioned above.Now as far as obtaining those charts. If you do want to fly using the charts and want to add this extra realism to your experience, the good news is many VATSIM sectors provide their own charts to their respective sectors.For instance NYARTCC.org, the New York Sector, provides SID/STARs for JFK, LGA, TEB, EWR, etc. Los Angeles Sector, laartcc.org, provides its respective charts.Now you may be saying to yourself, "I have to locate all these charts just to fly these places?" Again, the answer is "No." Just tell VATSIM ATC that you don't have them. However, if you're looking for that realism- for that suspension of disbelief- for that immersion (I'm starting to sound like a marketer) than you want the charts. Real-Life pilots must acquire their charts. They can't say, "Sorry, no charts." ;)Want more info, here are some direct links that may help you:What is a SID/DP?:http://www.flightsimaviation.com/index.php...iontheory&ch=13How to Fly a DP:http://vatsim.net/howtoflyadp.htmlHow to Fly a STAR:http://vatsim.net/star.htmlTo start you off for charts:New York Charts:http://www.nyartcc.orgOther places for charts:http://www.clearanceunlimited.comhttp://edj.net/cgi-bin/echoplate.pl Moving on...I noticed you mentioned VORs but you seem to understand them so if you're missing a VOR from your list, you can always use the MAP in your flight simulator to find it.See if this helps you get started. If you have more questions, we're here to help.Cheers.

[Guest Agrajag]

>Ahh now see? This is where things get interesting, and you'll>begin to see how much you can learn with the benefit of human>interaction.I couldn't agree more, which is what drew me, and many others, to VATSIM. But that doesn't change the fact that things need to DRAMATICALLY improve on the useability front to KEEP those people here and to grow the interest exponentially. Of course, that's a mixed bag as you'll also have more of people like me (inexperienced) to deal with.>For one thing, you are not required to fly a DP/STAR on>VATSIM. Simply instruct the ATC that you don't have charts.>The easy way to do this is when you file your flight plan- in>the remarks section, put in "NO CHARTS" Usually an ATC who's>not going crazy with traffic will then give you simple>vectors.Excellent. I also need to get into the flick as they say as I often need to ask a controller to repeat a complex direction. Clearly they're used to people who know the routes and really don't need to hear them where I'm writing them down!>SIDS - (S)tandard (I)nstrument (D)eparture procedure. Now>known as DPs - (D)eparture (P)rocedures. They're the sameThat alone is a help. Didn't realize they were the same.BTW, it also helped that someone on flightsim.com tonight made me aware that the Flight Planner in FS IS editable by just dragging the red route line to whatever elements you need it to go through. Doh! HUGE help. I can't tell it to cross CYN at 250k and 11,000, but it's better than not having the path at all.>- Reduces ATC/Pilot interaction because SIDS/DPs can be given>as a single name rather than a laundry list of "Do this, thenAh, assuming I have the charts and can quickly look it up.>departure..." Since the LAGUARDIA9 departure is explained on a>chart (read, pre-planned), the pilot understands what ATC is>requesting of him. Thus, if I'm going to often fly Philly between Philly and NY I should have those charts at a minimum.>STAR - (S)tandard (T)erminal (AR)rival: It's like a SID/DPAh, thus why they're often linked together in discussion.>If you do want to fly using the charts and want to add thisAbsolutely. >For instance NYARTCC.org, the New York Sector, provides>SID/STARs for JFK, LGA, TEB, EWR, etc. Los Angeles Sector,>laartcc.org, provides its respective charts.Ah. Okay. Still one question lingering. In the case of my last flight between Philly and JFK the controller wanted me to fly the "preferred route" which was that one I mentioned before made up of intersections and one VOR. Where did that come from? Clearly there can't be charts from every airport to every airport and yet somehow it was common knowledge that Philly to JFK goes this specific route.>marketer) than you want the charts. Real-Life pilots must>acquire their charts. They can't say, "Sorry, no charts." ;)Agreed. I could go the SimCharts route but they are a bit pricey. I spend a lot on this hobby but that's pushing it. Someone did give me a great site for charts. Have you seen http://www.myairplane.com yet?>I noticed you mentioned VORs but you seem to understand them>so if you're missing a VOR from your list, you can always use>the MAP in your flight simulator to find it.Ahahah. That's one complaint. That's like trying to find a needle in a haystack with the tool they provide. If I could just type "DITCH" and have it find it, that would help. >See if this helps you get started. If you have more questions,>we're here to help.Thanks. One thing I cannot complain about is the wonderfully helpful people who are here to lend a hand. Again, I just don't think it should be that necessary. Thanks for the wonderful links. I'll be very busy reading.

[GetStill 0]

For the FAA preferred routes, use this page:http://www.fly.faa.gov/Products/Coded_Depa...s_database.htmlSounds also like you may wish to investigate a piece of shareware called FSNavigator. It is probably the last add on I'd not buy for FS and it is used by me on about every flight. Easy to type in an intersetion name and you are able to find it in seconds. Also is capable of loading the DP's and STAR's too. And it has vertical nav (altitudes) that can be programmed so you can be an absolute spud sitting there watching all that automation.www.fsnavigator.comWorth every cent I've paid for it. You can try it out for 20 uses before it quits and you have to pay for it, but 20 uses is enough to get most folks hooked.Kyle

[Guest Agrajag]

Thanks for the FAA link. Great stuff.I downloaded FS Navigator last night. Very confusing to use at first. I have the manual in front of me now. The only thing I'm not that thrilled about is that it doesn't, or at least I don't yet see that it doesn't, feed data to FS so that I can use the default GPS and see the route there. There's also a bit of double duty outside VATSIM. If I just want to fly solo with the default ATC, I've got to either build my flightplan in MS' default Flightplan editor and then do it again in FS Nav to get ATC to handle me right or go all the way into the game, bring up FS Nav, build the plan, export it and reload it into the MS flightplan which then causes the game to restart.I'm very surprised that there's no way to reach the app outside FS but that's minimal and it does look amazing.I did have one bug with it where MS got stuck in a loop. I hit F9 and FS Nav took over. I could not get back to the game. Hitting F9 caused an hourglass to come up over the cursor and it just got stuck that way bouncing between cursor and hourglass until I closed the app and restarted.

[GetStill 0]

Under the file menu in FSNav there is an export function that allows you to export the FP created in FSNav into FS itself.Kyle

[Guest BK1]

Hi againReally pleased to see you're getting on. FSNav is a fantastic tool, both through it's ability to export flight plans straight to FS, and also to control the autopilot within FS.As another alternative (if you're not spent out yet :) ) you could invest in an aircraft with a working Flight Management Computer. This certainly adds to the realism, if that is what you are looking for, and to some extent, programming your route can be made easier, as a good FMC will accept entry of the airway you want to travel on, and will automatically plot the route and the navigational points on the airway, without you having to enter all the waypoints individually. This is something that FSNav cannot do, although it does show the airways (press "H" on the right hand side of the map to see the airways, then "ID" to see the airway designations).I am a dedicated 767 Pilot in Command fan, and the FMC on this aeroplane is fantastic. I have also recently purchased the PMDG 737NG, which I am loving more every time I fly it. Whether this type of aircraft is for you however, depends very much on what you want out of it. These aircraft not only simulate (very, very well :) ) the FMC, but also many other interacting systems, which is great if you're in it for the reality, but if you just want to kick the tyres, light the fires and go, you're likely to get fed up fairly quickly. I would add that with each of these aircraft, you can download, pre-programmed, most of the SID/STAR procedures, complete with speed and altitude restrictions, that you're ever likely to need ;-) Bruce.

[Guest Agrajag]

Well using it for the first real time tonight on a flight from KATL to KMCO (Atl to Orlando, flying Turner's kids to Universal) I am really confused as to why FS NAV cannot accept airways as part of the flightplan. It knows about them but cannot use them??? How am I supposed to submit that way?On this route there were two J airways and I had to just cut them out to get going.Otherwise it's quite a nice little product. Thanks.

[Guest Agrajag]

Guys, I also noticed that I could not get standard ATIS to come up at KMCO (Orlando) last night to get the proper runway. No controllers were on-hand (they were when I took off) so I just did what I wanted which really detracted from the fun.

[Guest BK1]

Don't be confused about why FSNav doesn't accept airway entry. It just doesn't I'm afraid, and we all have to work round it. When I use FSNav to control the autopilot on default aircraft, I know the airways I want to use, and I find them on FSNav's map. Then, looking along the airway I find waypoints that form part of the airway, right-click on them and select "To Flightplan" from the dropdown menu. If the airway runs dead straight, you can use the first and last waypoints only.As far as ATIS is concerned, you generally don't get ATIS where there is no controller on, unless there is an AUTO ATIS message, but I don't know of anywhere that has one of these. You can however get the weather details including wind speed and direction from the METAR for the airport you want. METAR's can be displayed in Servinfo, or if you are using an external weather program such as ActiveSky, you can enter your destination and it will give you the appropriate METAR. Once you have the wind information, you can choose the most appropriate runway.Alternatively, if there is no controller online but other aircraft are using the airport, watch the UNICOM chatter to see which runway everyone else is using.Hope that helps.Bruce.