Trouble on the horizon...

[Guest]

Yes your absolutely right! I was going to finish updating the rest of my aircraft but why bother, let someone else do it?...Rick Sasala

[Toys_R_Us 0]

Welcome to the world of "Patents" as we've known them since they began. Throw in a "pinch of sand", claim an improvement, and refile in your own name.That's the way the world works, like it or not.Bob (Lecanto, Fl)AMD, Athlon XP, 1800+MSI, K7T266 XP ProPC 2100 DDR, 1024 MBXP, Home Edition Elsa GLadiac 920, GF3/64Mb andPNY, Verto nVidia TNT 2-M64/32WD, 100 MB, 7200, Ultra 100Sound Blaster, Audigy MP3+CH Prod, VPP Yoke - Sound CardCH Prod, Pedals - Sound Card

[Guest]

Why is it that the god's of freeware become restless. People, I respect your work and really enjoy it but I don't like the negativity that comes with it. I agree when somebody"hacks" ones work it can be very upsetting. Thissoftware is a positive thing that is happening. Just look at how many people have come and gone in this hobby. There are some great FS2000 aircraft out there that haven't been updated and the original designer is nowhere to be found. These aircraft have some sort of problem either with nightlighting not being displayed properly in FS2002 or has "basketball" nav lights that cannot be deactivated in favor of FS2002 lighting. I would like the option of using an aircraft of MY choosing on MY own PC for MY own use. Some of the freeware groups have no intention of updating a aircraft that I enjoy. This would allow me to update it myself for MY using. I don't care about getting the credit. I just care about enjoying the hobby of MSFS the way I like it.I have to ask some of you, do you produce freeware so people can enjoy this hobby or do you produce it to inflate an ego? I know you don't produce it so somebody can take credit for it. That wasn't the question.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Rick-I saw your response to my post, and to this one. You have to consider these things.... And I'm saying this from experience, as I already have evidence that some are using my freeware proggie, Landclass Assistant, to release payware and shareware landclass updates:1) Releasing products on the web as freeware carries a certainty that someone, somewhere will try to profit from your work. They don't need a mdl utility to do it....2) Is the profit worth the stress? Do you think people are making thousands, or tens of thousands of dollars? Hardly..3) Why do you create? For the purpose of something to share, or for the purpose of having your name associated with the creation? Again using LC Assistant as an example, the only reason I released it was so some of the users at this forum, and at FSGateway, could proceed with projects sorely needed in the FS community. If someone posts it under the name "George Smith", there's little I can do to stop it. All they need is a cheap hex editor.4) We have copyright law. Even if someone releases my program under the name "George Smith", I have an electronic record going back to day 1, showing my work as being under my name. If such a thief had deep enough pockets, perhaps I can supplement the income from my day job with a lawsuit. Most thieves don't have deep pockets, and are found out quickly. Since the dawn of time there have been people hacking other people's work, even before the days of desktop computers. If the fear of this is reason for an author to say, "forget it", perhaps the author has to examine their motivation to stay the course. It takes more courage, IMHO, to release a product as freeware despite these risks. Not to mention the people that slam you (I still receive 1-2 "Your program stinks" emails a week--although most come from folks too stupid to RTFM).

[Guest]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Don't tell the guy over at FS Planet you will never know what will happen

:-lol :-spacecraft :-lol

[PeterR 9]

Although I completely understand the reaction to this tool (I've had stuff pirated before), after following this topic since the thread "Important for all aircraft designers", I've come to the conclusion that it's become over-sensitive.Model creators have, for the most part until now, benefited from security by obscurity. On the other hand, creators of livery, gauges, sounds, effects, ground textures, etc. don't have this benefit. Nevertheless, they have been able to continue creating and thriving despite the fact that anyone can open and steal their work if they want to.So, I doubt that MS will combat this (they have bigger problems to contend with: the government, Linux, etc.). Model files will just become as open as the other components that make up aircraft and scenery. The alternative is for everyone to lobby MS to lock up every part of the sim and all its supporting files so that everyone can protect their work, not only the model files.

[Guest]

If you look at this slightly different, there may be a massive benefit to the whole community (speaking as a designer for many years as well as a consumer of others fine works):Mayhap this will encourage true Free Software in this community: in place of its Freeware tradition. With Free Software, anyone and his brother are allowed - nay, encouraged - to make any changes to something you release. Depending on the license you release under, this could also include the full ability to sell such works commercially once modified - with an extremely important caveat: that ANY AND ALL internal changes, textures, etc, etc. are released back to the author and the community itself - fully and completely!Of course, the original author retains his/her absolute and full copyright on his/her original work (and of course reserves the option to not release future versions under a Free Software license). And the license he/she does release under must be followed (eg: GNU GPL or LGPL, etc). If it is not followed by some crook, a massive, wide and extremely vocal community of GPL supporters is ready at your back to help you out. And believe me when I say: the GNU GPL (GNU Public License) is vehemently enforced by said community (and thats a HUGE understatement). If this community adopted such a model, it gains the full backing and power of millions of Free Software developers worldwide (and the companies who support it).Now truly take a moment to think about the above.Just think how MUCH this community would grow with such a model as its basis! The knowledge shared between developers would simply fly through the roof... The encouragement of non-developer users to actually participate and become developers in their own right increases ten-fold... The entire community spirit would be improved in unmeasurable ways.Every cloud has its lining (and its shadows). The death of Freeware may not be such a bad thing in such an instance... It just depends upon the mindset of developers and how they wish to react. Not only would this particular instance of "trouble" be cured, but many recent "troubles" as well (such as Ferdy, etc).Food for thought,Elrond

[Guest]

I have done some preliminary investigation and this is what I have uncovered:This tool is being formulated by a new race of "Pirate Aircraft Hackers from Der Fatherland" who will sit in their darkened basements, kackeling to themselves as they hunch over their monitors with this dasterdly tool decompiling freeware aircraft. Soon, they will compete their sinister plan and unleash these reverse engineered aircraft on us poor unsuspecting folk. What we don't know is that these newly reversed engineered aircraft will flash GMAX rendered subliminal messages forcing us to donate $100,000 each to Al Queda. In the mean time these new race of Ubermen will kidnap and ship all freeware and payware aircraft makers to internment camps in the Black Forest area of Germany all the while assuming their identities as US citizens to flood the multibillion dollar freeware aircraft market with millions of fake freeware aircraft. The final result is that the Trillions of dollars earned annualy in the FS addon market will be funneled ultimately to Taiwan where they will in turn fund the ultimate scheme to flood the American markets with such things as Enhanced Chia Pets, Gut Blasters, Butt Exercizers and late night infomercials allowing us to buy property for no money down. The remaining money will be placed in a trust fund for Osama Bin Ladin to remove the unexploded Tomahawk Cruise Missle lodged in his hind quarters.I, for one, will NOT stand for such unpatriotic activities in my beloved country and under direction of President George Bush will be reporting this "suspicious activity" to the nearest Girl Scout Troop Jamboree for immediate investigation!!!!---------But seriously folks, there really aren't THAT many unscrupulous people who are bent on the destruction as freeware as we know it. Quite frankly, any tool that allows enhancements and additions to the freeware community is welcome in my book.Maybe I just don't believe that there is THAT much motivation to make your conspiracy theories valid because quite frankly, who is getting rich making addon's for FS??? What will actually be affected here? Egos or pocketbooks? It seems to me with all the self proclaimed CEO's, Presidents, Managing Directors, Chancellors, Supreme ATC Commanders, Chief Aircraft Development Coordinators and Grand Maseonic Scenery Distribution Messiah titles attached to everyone who has a virtual airline or FS development group, etc... well need I say more? Mike T.Just a little tongue-in-cheek humor to remind US ALL to stop taking ourselves and our hobby so darn seriously and just enjoy.

[Donmo 6]

Whoooooooaaaaaa! Not to change the subject, but I have to....What Connie???? :) Sorry...back to your regularly scheduled program!Don

[Dewey 0]

[Francois_Dumas 10]

I like your post... :-lolWho am I to judge right or wrong on the issue... I don't make anything but text.... and I will always support the copyright ideal. But I think it is valid to step back a few paces and look at ourselves, the hobby and the motives we are all in this.... and apply a little mockery, why not !? :-)As with almost everything in the world there are good and bad sides to be found, and opinions left and right of the middle. With all the copyright and copy discussions we have had, and no doubt will have, on this forum and others, there is still no solution for it. 'Companies' in many countries are pumping out counterfeat productions that mar the real brand production lines, pirates copy commercial software all over the world and put it on the internet and on CD's, the BSA can only go after companies with money.... so what the heck do we think we can do about copying freeware !!???In my view, all the honest people around will do what's right, and all those that are not will laugh at it anyway. I really cannot get very excited about this little program. After all, this is a relatively small world where we usually know each other, know the developers and it almost always comes to the light if somebody is doing unethical things.Nope, I wouldn;t worry so much and get on with enjoying life while we still can ;-)Just my .02 Eurocents :-outta Francois :-wave[table border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0][tr][td valign=bottom" align="center]"At home in the wild"[/td][td valign=bottom" align="center][link:avsim.com/alaska/alaska_051.htm|Don's Alaskan Bush Charters]"Beavers Lead the Way"[/td][td valign=bottom" align="center][link:www.avsim.com/vfr_center/mainpages/vfr_flights_main_page.htm]VFR Flight Center]"Looking Good Outside"[/td][/tr][tr][td valign=top" align="center]http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif[/td][td valign="top" align="left" colspan=2]http://www.fssupport.com/images/moose2.gif[/td][tr][/table]________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online![/bemail: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

[Guest]

I agree!Though DCSS has been banned off the internet.We don't have the legal enforcement of the MPAA so each has to make a decision wether or not we publish our work. Frankly I don't care at all if my Hollywood Sign /Griffith observatory fix appears on a CD or someone starts selling it.I decided that if you want it, it's there for you and all!http://www.geocities.com/ihor.geo/There are what seems like millions of aircraft out there but few accurate panels. So I rarely download aircraft, though I'm a sucker for Terrain and scenery downloads!

[Guest Dee Waldron]

Just a little on the lighter side Chris, but...There's a lot of "buts" and "unless" in your post! :-lolDee WaldronHistoric Jetliners Group

[Guest Dee Waldron]

Maybe Jeff,The original designer doesn't want the old FS2000 model updated?Maybe he's working secertly on a newer FS2002 model and you just haven't heard from him/her yet?Maybe none of the above. Could be he/she wants someone to design and build a completely new, fresh model of that airplane. Instead of hacking on the old design. Where's the advancment?There's all kinds of resons why, maybe...Freeware gods? What a bunch of bunk. I'm sick of it.Dee WaldronHistoric Jetliners Group

[Guest Dee Waldron]

Hi Dewey,Just to clarify...>>In my opinion, there is nothing "wrong" or "illegal" about providing "tools". There will surely be those who use them illegally or inappropriately, but that is not grounds to prohibit them, even ifyou could do that in some way. In fact, that act would be just asinappropriate as the one you suggest in your post.<