Multiple monitors....

[Guest]

I am running XP and FS2002.Having read previous posts, it confirmed the results I got when I tried 2 monitors (I just slotted in an old PCI video card to work with my AGG radion 64mb card.) The framerates died and basically made the program unusable I was, of course trying to run full screen on 2nd monitor with external views!I realize now that probably the only answer is multiple PC's and Wideview?Here is my question:I would like to run 4 monitors in total.Can anyon please tell me If the following scenario is achievable using Wideview.Main PC: monitor 1 showing full screen outside viewMain PC: Monitor 2 showing full screen panel view.2nd PC: Monitor 1 Showing full screen outside view2nd PC: Monitor 2 Showing full screen outside view. Also what would be the minimum specs for the 2nd PCThanks for any adviceNorm

[tigert 0]

>I am running XP and FS2002. >Having read previous posts, it confirmed the results I got >when I tried 2 monitors (I just slotted in an old PCI video >card to work with my AGG radion 64mb card.) The >framerates died and basically made the program unusable >I was, of course trying to run full screen on 2nd monitor >with external views! I think one computer can reasonably run two videocards, where one is for the 3D view and the other(s) are for 2D instrument panels. That should work fine, unless you have complex stuff.. Someone had the Garmin 530 and the other "weather radar" thingy that are separate programs running on the second screen, and this slowed things down considerably. But I bet the Garmin does require somewhat CPU power.But I myself run a Geforce for 3D scenery view and a Matrox Mystique PCI (those cards from 1996 or so :-) on a 15" screen that I put inside a "panel" box. It shows a custom fullscreen instrument panel that is aligned to the panel gauge holes. That works great.I think you can get some of those "dualhead" NVidia cards to do a "stretched" 3D view accross two monitors, and there is the Matrox Parhelia that does 3-monitor wide view, but I guess putting several "normal" videocards for 3D views in one computer is too much. At least Windows 2000 does not even accelerate anything but the primary video card, so it is out of question for me. XP might let you accelerate more at once, dunno. But many PCI 3D-cards you can get are not really that fast and great anymore.>I realize now that probably the only answer is multiple PC's >and Wideview? Seems to be the case, unless you go for Parhelia and one or two instrument panel monitors on PCI cards. But Parhelia resolution max. for fs2002 is 1920x480 (640x480 x 3)>Here is my question: >>I would like to run 4 monitors in total. >>Can anyon please tell me If the following scenario is >achievable using Wideview. > >>Main PC: monitor 1 showing full screen outside view >Main PC: Monitor 2 showing full screen panel view. This should work okay.>2nd PC: Monitor 1 Showing full screen outside view >2nd PC: Monitor 2 Showing full screen outside view. This works if the card is "dualhead" that can do acceleration on both "heads" at once.>Also what would be the minimum specs for the 2nd PC I guess the 3d view generator PC should be the fast one. So as fast as you can afford, since it is to do the 3D rendering.Hmm.. Now, if there was free hardware available, imagine 2 PCs with Parhelias, totalling 6 monitors for about 180

[Guest]

Thank you so much for your helpI went out today and bought a Gforce 2 (440?). I just plugged this into my AGP slot and tried to run 2 monitors.All was ok till I tried to have an outside view on the 2nd screen. Once again the frames dropped to about 2FPS even with this power video card installed. Needless to say, I returned it and resumed using my Radeon 9000. Incidentally, also with the new card, the graphics in FS2002 were no better than with my old card. Kinda tells me that FS2002 doesn't really utilize the benefits of a powerfull gaming card? Maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression it gave me ?After I re-installed my old card and, with only one monitor running, I checked the frames with an outside view opened. I was surprised to see them drop again from 32 to about 8FPS. (I had never checked this before)It has certainly been a learning experience and I am quite convinced now that, in order to have extra outside views, additional CPU's and Wideview software is a necessity.Thanks againNorm

[tigert 0]

>Once again the frames dropped to about 2FPS even with this >power video card installed. Yea, you can reasonably run one 3D view per CPU, unless you have those special dualhead cards that have special drivers and have two or more outputs in the same card -> Someone said some NVidia cards can "stretch" the whole display accross two monitors, so your FS will automatically fill both displays. But that is a special driver, you cannot do two monitors 3D view using 2 cards, it seems too much for the CPU.> Incidentally, also with the new card, the graphics in >FS2002 were no better than with my old card. Kinda tells me >that FS2002 doesn't really utilize the benefits of a >powerfull gaming card? Maybe I'm wrong but that's the >impression it gave me ? Geforce2 is not exactly a "new powerful gaming card" these days, but FS2002 utilizes a Geforce2 as far as I know, any new tricks on newer cards are not being used since fs2002 does not have code to do those. But new cards are of course faster.>After I re-installed my old card and, with only one >monitor running, I checked the frames with an outside view >opened. I was surprised to see them drop again from 32 to >about 8FPS. (I had never checked this before) You mean a second "window" with a spot plane view or something?>>It has certainly been a learning experience and I am quite >convinced now that, in order to have extra outside views, >additional CPU's and Wideview software is a necessity. Yea. Extra videocards are awesome for a setup where you have one computer, and want the instruments on separate monitor (that you can hide inside a panel for example) while your main view is on the one screen, maybe on a projector or behind a big fresnel lens. Or maybe a Parhelia can do a reasonable front wide angle view while a PCI card drives the instruments.Tuomas

[Guest]

Thanks again Tuomas"You mean a second "window" with a spot plane view or something?"Yes that's it. Even in 1 monitor mode, if I open up a 2nd window as above the frames drop right down to rally low. It is still usable though.>"that you can hide inside a panel for example"I've neve heard or seen of anyone putting a monitor inside a panel.Do you have any links that will show me that?Do you personally use Wideview and is it difficult to set up?THanks againNorm

[Guest]

Hi Norm,I used to run my 1.5 mgz ATHELON with 2 video cards.Gforce 420 single monitor for front viewGforce 440 dual monitor for panel view,indocked,(dragged panel down to bottom)monitors and then resized to fit.It worked great for me.Also i had 512 SDRAM also.I had to make sure my 420 card was my primary.RegardsJames

[Guest]

Thanks JamesI think I may be forced to go out and upgrade my CPU from its present 800mhz/256 ram and re-think the situation."I used to run my 1.5 mgz ATHELON with 2 video cardsDid you ever check your framerates when both windows were opened?Norm

[Guest]

Yes i used to get 19-23 fs most of my scenery displayed med-highJames

[Guest]

"Yes i used to get 19-23 fs most of my scenery displayed med-high"That's assuring, it kinda seems that i'm pushing it with only 800 MHZ?thanks again, James.Norm

[tigert 0]

>Yes that's it. Even in 1 monitor mode, if I open up a 2nd >window as above the frames drop right down to rally low. It >is still usable though. Yea, it's probably just too much for the CPU. It has to handle 2 views of the same world from two different locations, meaning it does the same work twice. The "multihead" videocard special drivers do it by stretching the same window accross the two screens, that is only "one view" but just bigger resoliution when you think in terms of FS2002. So that is probably faster and I guess that would be possible. But yeah, your CPU probably needs an upgrade as well if you want to do that kind of stuff. The "one screen for outside view and another screen on a PCI videocard for instruments" is probably usable, I had this kind of a setup on my AMD Duron 800MHz as well, and it was OK. It actually increased the FPS by a few, since it did not have to "mask" the instrument panel above the 3D view.>I've neve heard or seen of anyone putting a monitor inside a >panel. >>Do you have any links that will show me that? Sure. I it turned a lot better than what I expected, I think adding the paint did the trick :-)I have posted this a few weeks ago as well, but this series of photos shows pretty well how the thing was made.http://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuf...topconsole1.jpghttp://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuf...topconsole3.jpghttp://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuf...topconsole4.jpghttp://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuf...topconsole7.jpghttp://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuf...topconsole9.jpgIt's basically a "mask" around the monitor that has the holes exactly where the instruments are (I have a custom panel that is full screen that contains just instruments and nothing more)The switches are driven with FSBUS (www.fsbus.de)>Do you personally use Wideview and is it difficult to set >up? I have just one computer with the extra PCI Matrox card so there is no WideFS needed. One needs widefs and maybe wideview to link many computers together.Tuomas

[Guest]

Looks really good Tuomas, maybe that will be my next experiment.Thank you again for your help. My next step is the cpu upgrade. I am going to an AMD 2100MHZ so we will see what difference that makes.I will let you knowBest wishesNorm

[tigert 0]

>Looks really good Tuomas, maybe that will be my next >experiment. Just remember ventilation!Monitors make a lot of heat, and putting them inside a box is sure a fire hazard or something if the heat has no way out. At least it does not do good to the screens..Tuomas

[Guest]

Hi, I too am involved in a project cockpit, a 747-400 and am going to be using Project Magenta with the Matrox Parhelia so I can display my PFD/ND both pilot & First officeers plus my Eicas display, instead of building a bunch of PC's, I will have 4 pc's networked but that is still better than the 7 I would have needed without Matro. It's not the best card for games, but to handle 3 seperate screens running Open Gl it will do a great job, I'll no for sure in about a month (around 20 Feb 2003), good luck!

[PeterR 9]

My experience thus far on the subject of multiple monitors has been thus:1. With two video cards or a dual-head card, one monitor for 3D view and one for 2D panels works even on my old 500 MHz Celeron. No problem.2. Two monitors with a separate 3D view on each (i.e. two cockpit windows) will yield 6-8 frames per second even on a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4.3. I've read that two monitors with a stretched 3D view spanning the monitors works well (e.g. 800x1200: each monitor at 800x600, FS at 800x1200). I haven't tried it as the only dual-head card I have is a Matrox G400 Dual Head that still suffers slowdown even when stretching the view because it can't really draw one 3D view across both screens. The Matrox Parhelia can but I don't have one.4. I've read that FS uses the same field of view even if you have a stretched window across monitors. If that's the case, the doing multiple monitors this way doesn't really gain you much perspective. It's still better to use Wideview.5. Opening multiple 3D windows on one monitor on my 2.4 GHz doesn't seem to make much of an impact on the frame rate.6. Opening three VC windows, tiling them horizontally across one monitor, and then panning the left and right windows to create a complete view makes for a pretty nice widescreen effect. It truly provides the wider field of view. The only drawback is that you have to sit really close to the screen to eliminate the "fish eye" effect.7. Opening a second 3D view on the second monitor can be done with a reasonable framerate by keeping the window small. The smaller it is, the higher your overall framerate.So, the best solution seems to be Wideview with one PC per 3D view. All the panels can still run on the main system. I'm considering using low-end systems for the left and right views and just set them to lower detail since detail isn't that critical for getting the feel.Hope this info is helpful in your quest to see more in your cockpit.Peter http://bfu.avsim.net/sigpics/PeterR.gifBFU Forums Moderator[table border=2 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=1][tr][td][table border=0 cellpadding=8 cellspacing=0][tr][td bgcolor=#540000]http://bfu.avsim.net/sigpics/logo75t.gif[/td][td align="center" bgcolor=#FFFFF6]Bush Flying Unlimited"At home in the wild"Looking for adventure? Come join us! * [link:bfu.avsim.net|Web Site] * [link:www.cafepress.com/bfu,bfu2,bfu3,bfu4|BFU Store] * [link:bfu.avsim.net/join.htm]Join!][/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table

[Guest]

Thank you Peter, that was most informative.Interesting to hear that even with a 2.4 gig, frames drop significantly when using 2 X 3d views.I am really close to upgrading cpu from 800 to 2.4 gig but now i'm wondering if I really will gain very much in FS2000?I notice that now, if I have a main 3d window and 2 side 3d views open, my frames drop to about 8. This does not cause me any major problems as I fly heavies mainly (767 PIC) and they are sluggish anyway As a matter of interest, what do you consider the minimum requrements for client PC's...500 or ??Thanks again for your inputNorm