Key Errors - FSBus

[Guest Binkles]

Ok, I've somehow managed to stuff up the key card yet again, but I've got a thought or two that may be causing it - then again I may be well out.I had soldered one set of pins, and 1 diode and tested the board and it was fine, worked well.Soldered everything else - and nothing, nada, zilch.I thought I would check the pic just to make sure it was fine so then turned the fsbus off, changed all the jumpers over to program mode, read the pic and it wasn't written right - so I was happy!Well for a short time, I had also kept the key test on, and noticed one row of switches were 'live' during the program and wondered if this could be my error, because even though the program went well, I still didn't get any key tests done. I then removed the keys and re programmed again.Could having the switches still plugged kill the 4051 chip - is there a way to test this chip?Does the max232 get used for the display boards? If so, then it's not the 232 as the display boards work well and I've spent a good number of minutes watching it count. The display board can run at the same time as I try the key (orbviously disconnected during program).

[Guest Erups]

>I had soldered one set of pins, and 1 diode and tested the>board and it was fine, worked well.>>Soldered everything else - and nothing, nada, zilch.My guess: some short on one of the rows.>Well for a short time, I had also kept the key test on, and>noticed one row of switches were 'live' during the program and>wondered if this could be my error, because even though the>program went well, I still didn't get any key tests done. I>then removed the keys and re programmed again.The "live" is kind of understandable: the same pins used during program mode, are used in operating-mode to send/receive data.It may be that some of the program code is understood by the key-test as actual data.Sound strange, but possible.>Could having the switches still plugged kill the 4051 chip ->is there a way to test this chip?CMOS chips are hard to kill.And since the program-mode inhibit any of the PIC functions, i doubt you could have done anything to the 4051.Have you "configured" the pic after programming?You have to assign the CID.If it fails even with this done, try programming the PIC on another card:unplug it from the key-card, plug it in the display-card, set everything in program-mode and flash the pic choosing keycard.Then give it the cid and swap again che pics.See if this way it works, or the other way around: program the display pic onto the key card.>Does the max232 get used for the display boards? If so, then>it's not the 232 as the display boards work well and I've>spent a good number of minutes watching it count.Uh?The 232 is there to transform TTL logic signals (0, 5) in RS232 signals (-12, +12).It doesn't do anything else.

[Guest Binkles]

Okay I've checked again for shorts, and found some interesting results, but I'll get onto them shortly.I've reprogrammed the pic on both the display, and the key and get the same result when I read :-3001 0098 2812 0000 1412 3000 008B 110B 0009 1985 0008 1012 0818 3CFB 0081 30A0 008B 0008 1683 3007 0081 3008 0085 30FF 0086 1283 1412 3008 0091 0391 0811 3E28 0084 0806 0095 2049 0811 3C00 1D03 281D 2009 0811 3E28 0084 0806 0093 0200 1903 283C 0813 0080 3008 0891 1903 0091 0391 0811 3810 0085 2828 0811 3E20 0084 0806 0093 0200 1903 2833 0813 0080 0095 2049 2833 1C12 2849 0818 0093 0E93 1793 1403 0D11 0413 0096 205E 1C12 285C 0815 0096 205E 1C12 285C 0008 200B 2849 3009 0097 1205 2862 2078 0397 1903 2873 1C12 286E 0C96 1C03 2871 0000 1605 2862 0000 0000 0000 1205 2862 0000 1605 2078 2078 0008 3003 0094 0C05 0605 3908 1D03 1012 0394 I also wrote it as #2 just to make sure it was reading and verified that the 3001 changed to 3002.The display when reprogrammed in the key board also checked out fine.In program mode the row 3 comes up 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 1.All others are blank.Checking for shorts - I found all rows were reporting around about 8.0 when the 4051 cmos was in, remove it, and I had no shorts - or at least according to my multimeter there were no connections that weren't suppose to be there.Having the key in program mode, with the Com3 also in program mode I could use the keys fine except for columns 6 and 7 which are the two that lead to the 2x3 pins - which of course are not connected as the jumpers are in program mode.Return back out of program mode and again it's not working.Any ideas?

[Guest Erups]

>Having the key in program mode, with the Com3 also in program>mode I could use the keys fine except for columns 6 and 7>which are the two that lead to the 2x3 pins - which of course>are not connected as the jumpers are in program mode.>>Return back out of program mode and again it's not working.That's not possible.When the com is in program-mode, the 13v MCLR signal is applied, thus resetting and holding any pic from working (that's also why when you turn on program mode, display cards go out).Does your display card still display when you go into the program mode?Then you have problems probably on the com3 board.

[Guest Binkles]

Yes just checked, when the display is in program the 7 segments are all out.So how could that not be the case for the key?Doing the troubleshooter I get these results.On the Display(unticked) [ticked]Pin 4 (0) [11.08]Pin 12 (0) [5] Pin 13 (0) [5]On the KeyPin 4 (0) [10.89]Pin 12 (0) [4.77]Pin 13 (0) [4.77]This is using the same cable, and the same plug on the com3 unit.

[Guest Erups]

>(unticked) [ticked]>>Pin 4 (0) [11.08]>Pin 12 (0) [5] >Pin 13 (0) [5]>>On the Key>Pin 4 (0) [10.89]>Pin 12 (0) [4.77]>Pin 13 (0) [4.77]Pin 4 is evidently wrong: must be 13v.It could be a little lower, but i don't know how much lower it is possible.Takeing into account a tolerance of 5% should be at least 12.35v.Evidently 11v is still ok to trig the program mode at least on the pic you use in the display card.10.89v is not sufficient.The fact that you have not even 12v may reside in soldering errors on the com3 card, or maybe a not sufficient power supply.I do not remember exactly, but i think that you need more then 12V of power supply for the com3.Check it on the docs.

[iwik 0]

Hi Laurence,I see you are still battling on.Firstly the pin 4 voltage is low and this could be attributed to lower power supply input voltage.If you have a supply with a little more output use it.However that will only increase your programming voltage.I dont think that is your problem as you are able to program your display board in either fskey or fs display.I believe your problem is with the recieve side of fscom.If you look at the diagram Dirk has labelled pin 11 of the RS232 as TX(arrow back to fscomm) and pin 12 as RX.What he is trying to tell you is that there are two paths for signals depending on wheather you are using an input bd(fskey) or an output bd (FSled or FSdisplay).From this you can say that it is possible to have an output bd work for example in your case the fsdisplay and fsled but not a FSkey bd.This is because they use seperate paths.I have not had alook at the data sheet to see what goes on inside the max232.I do know somone else had similar probs and in there case it was a faulty 232 chip.So i would be looking at the paths traced out back from pin 11.You did say that your fskey worked with just one diode connected.Why not go back to this one diode only to see if you can repeat it.Or an easier way is to find somone to test either of your fscomm and fskey bds.You could be chasing your tail otherwise.Good luckLes