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Public Notice about Texture artwork by Garry J. Smith

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You miss the point - I do not sell freeware files - that is a gross interpretation of what I am doing. I do not sell nor intend to sell any part of Mike's or any other designers texture - I intend to only every sell my own creativity and work that I have created using my time and skill. What I release is in no way stealing from the developer or the original textures. In Mikes case and many others you will find that the textures that I intend to sell bear very little resemblance to the masters created by him, and as a matter of fact Mike is very aware of what I do with his textures. It is not intended as a profit making venture but simply to ensure that when tasks are requested that are going to take more than normal for the time and effort that there is going to be a fee. Come on - do you think there will be hundreds of people rushing to me to request textures at a fee - no the exact opposite - but those that are prepared to pay that fee will get the best effort that I can do for their money.I am not selling freeware - understand that I am selling my efforts and time to create user specific needs. If the aircraft does not exist then there is not a need and that's fine. But if an aircraft exists then there is a miriad of needs that many in the simming community fill for that aircraft, texture, panels, utilities etc. Some people sell their labour and others give it away - I do not see many complaints about people who sell panels yet they are intended for many freeware aircraft and use gauges and some artwork from many other sources including Microsoft.You are implying that I am in some way committing an offence by providing some of my services, time and effort for a fee to some parts of the community using other's freeware or payware. This is definately not the case. Think about it please. Think also about the freeware textures I have already released and the many that will come in the future. Is that wrong as well or only wrong when I charge a fee for the time and effort in some cases.I have no desire to reduce my output - this is not the intention of the post - This post is intended to advise that I will charge a "fee for service" on my time and effort to create textures for VA liveries. This fee is specifically for the artistic work to create logos and the desired livery. You could take your perspective to the full extent and say that I must obtain Microsofts approval to charge a fee for textures in their Flight Sim products and that I need to get permission from all of the paint tool creators to use their product in creating the end result for sale. If this is the case then many many people out their are committing the same offence of making some sort of revenue from this environment and we all should cease.RegardsGarry J. Smith at http://www.gjsmith.comAircraft Texture Tinkererhttp://www.gjsmith.com/images/GJS-banner.gif

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Guest

Well I think I want to put my 2 cents towads this matter.I also do this to Virtual Airline that asked me to paint their plane in their livery.However I charge reasonable amount of $20 for each aircraft, that includes free updates and fixes if the person asked me to do so.Let me put this way, when you are asked to do a task, you are dedicating your time towards the work you will do towards the task, this requires amount of effort and time to do this task.In return you want some money to be given for your effort, be honest yes you do want money for it, everybody wants money for doing the special work that his/her hobby for other people benefit.Even though Garry is not the modeller, but he still deserve some money towards his effort constructing the livery, the same thing goes to me.Although it may seem somehow unfair to the modeller of the plane.Real world condition for myself forced me to do this, but from the bottom of my heart it's not my intention to sell freeware model, but what I sell is my effort for the VA scheme, that's what I sell.Even I think I want to charge more, but I don't want to, $20 seems fair to me.I'm sad have to do this stuff for my hobby and using freeware model as a profit towards me, but my whole situation forced me to do this....I want money for almost every essential things, my parents only support me some amount of money, but it's not much to cover my life for a month, getting a job is difficult here and also with lots amount of work that I do in college, means I can't get a job, I won't force myself. Sad but that's what I can do for this moment until one day I get myself a real job and I only have to concentrate on my real job, then I will quit using freeware as a profit towards me.The money I received for doing this so far, really it's not much, it's still not enough, but well I know I can still make it.I self employed myself, I'm not only doing VA liveries request, but also doing web designing, computer matters and lots more.So again almost my 2 cents the same as what Garry said.

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Guest mikehaska

No, you paid for the use of MSFS or your painting products and have a right to use them, as stipulated by the EULA. However, the EULA in most freeware packages states that no part may be sold at profit. You are using the base textures to make your new textures, so you are breaking this EULA.If I spend my time and effort in repackaging Microsoft Windows with differently coloured taskbars, do you think Microsoft would appreciate it if I resold it?Time and effort aside, you are still making money off freeware files, cut and square, no ifs ands or buts. You feel you should be compensated for the time you spent repainting. Why shouldn't the aircraft designer be compensated for the time he spend designing the aircraft? At the very least, you owe them a large cut of your profits.Edit: Forgot to close the italic bracket!

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Hi again,This could go on forever - we appear to differ on this concept and I think that nothing either of us say will change the other's perspective. "Cut and Square, no ifs and or buts" is again your perception of the issue and I would like to believe that the overall issue is not that black and white or simple to address and balanced.But please feel free to apply your views to Panel Designers, Scenery Designers, Utility Designer etc as well who sell their work.Without aircraft and MSFS their ventures would also be fruitless and if they are intended or can be used with Freeware components then they too should understand your outlook.I appreciate every designers work and their considerable efforts greatly as I do MS and other who contribute for free or a fee. If the aircraft designers wanted to charge a fee for their services then I am sure many including myself would indeed come to the party and purchase their aircraft.I believe that I enhance the flying pleasure of the simming environment with the textures that I do and I believe that I am being reasonable in charging in some cases for my efforts and time.Garry J. Smith at http://www.gjsmith.comAircraft Texture Tinkererhttp://www.gjsmith.com/images/GJS-banner.gif

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Guest

Hi Garry.i think this is a good idea. i trully enjoy your work and actually learned how to do some of the reflective textures from your tutorial (tahnk you very much btw!)anyway. are you charging $15.00/hour or $15.00 for the whole project. im not sure if id be willing to pay $130.00. well, not on aircraft textures. maybe for other graphics i would.i do think you should be compensated for your time and effort on a project as many people should.i do see alot of freeware designers these days going towards the shareware areas mainly because the demands are really too much for some. i used to provide painting services for VA's for FS98 and FS2000 but after 3 months i had about 200 orders (free) on the list. then when people start emailing you daily/hourly to get updates or start demanding that they be moved ahead of the line it just starts being a burden instead of being FUN. so after a few emails here and there i decided to just close it down and be done with it.these days i dont paint much. it just isnt fun anymore to do it even for my own purposes. i sometimes try to start a project but quickly lose interest.as for mikehaska's question.gary does have the right to charge for his WORK. he is not using the designers original texture therefor hes not actually doing anything wrong. hes simply adding a new texture with his own ART WORK. when someone creates theyre own ART WORK its theyre right to charge people to use it or not.some people decide to charge, others dont. simple. if the original designer decided not to charge then thats theyre own decision. they decided not to charge people to use the models.and since mike stone does know gary is using his models then obviously he sees nothing wrong with it.also. if you read alot of the copyrights on these models then youll see that most often they say that they cannot be REPACKAGED or MODIFIED for the purpose of selling the model.well guess what. if you just edit the textures and just sell the texture ON ITS OWN, then your perfectly within the copyrights rules.just like when people sell panels or guages. there are panels out there that wont work right without a sirtain guage. theyre perfectly within theyre rights to sell that panel or guage that way.you cant sell the original model but you can sirtainly put a price on the textures, panels, or sounds that you have made for it.

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Guest

1) ever heard of derivative works2) he's selling his time, not the final product. He's charging $15 an hour, not X per livery. Therefore he's selling a service and not a product. If the VA owner were to walk in with a model he created himself he'd still have to pay.3) if he were to charge full consultancy fees for his work, he'd be charging not $15 an hour but $100 an hour plus extra for use of facilities (read, wear and tear on his mouse/drawing tablet and cofee machine).Your argument reads like "everything on the net should be free", which is utter BS.

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Guest

Finally, an educated, and correct response to this arguement! Well said JW.

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Guest

Thank you for your clear and blunt factual description of the situation. Indeed as a consultant my fees are generally $80 to $120 per hours in the real world of consultancy but for some reason some people do expect everything for free and will go to any lenghts to justify some sort of reason to can people who suggest that in a few cases they expect to get some renumeration for their time and effort.Again thank for saying it so clearly - I also noticed that you identified the reasoning for my hourly rate in lieu of product cost. And I am impressed in you bringing some hint of the realities of this issue.RegardsGarry J. Smith at http://www.gjsmith.comAircraft Texture Tinkererhttp://www.gjsmith.com/images/GJS-banner.gif

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Guest JonP01

Hi Garry,I didn't realise you were a fellow Aussie! I love your birthplace Goulburn and have passed through there on countless occasions over the years when embarking on holidays in Victoria. I gained infamy within family circles in around 1968, when I wandered off on my own accord in Goulburn park - thereby becoming temporarily separated from my frantically worried parents. I notice you are in the ACT now - I live "just up the freeway" near Camden NSW.After reading your post I was going to suggest you become a professional painter, but then I read your resume, so I'll can that suggestion ;)I really can't fault your viewpoint or reasoning at all. In terms of the argument regarding painting other peoples work, I'm not quite sure what the answer is here. I think there is a *possible* argument that if you charge for a repaint for a payware developer's aircraft, then that developer *might* have a right to ask you for a licence fee upon each texture sale. That doesn't mean they would, but they might have a right to do so. otoh, a company like Microsoft lets all and sundry develop whatever they like to run under Windows. They also let any licence holder of their professional development application suites to develop and distribute programs for profit without charging any ongoing fee - so long as they paid the oroginal licence fee up front. So the other side of the coin is that you have fully licenced copies of Paint Shop, etc, so off you go to make textures for profit however you want.The bottom line is do whatever you have to so that you can continue to enjoy the hobby. If that means charging, that's perfectly fine by this particular writer. Infact now you have advertised, I might even book myself in, even if it takes till Christmas 2003. To be honest, there is no way in the world I would ever write to a freeware developer asking them to do anything for me. I think it is rude, selfish and inconsiderate to do so. Once I know I have to pay them, it makes me feel a whole lot better - I would not hesitate - because I know he or she is going to be rewarded in the best possible way (money) for the time and effort they spent working for me.So, how much for a Sopwith Camel repaint?

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Guest

I agree Gary - should charge for doing a custom texture.His time his effort and commitment is going there - he produce good work - above the average - and it is just fear he get something back for his effort - when he does a custom job for somebody.Regarding freeware - many authors which also produce shareware - or chargeware - payware - or going nowhere - do also produce freeware - as they are very conscious that freeware is very important to the simm community - After all - will he produce a custom textures for anybody if asked - for free??Maybe in just few occasions - but for sure will not book himself till Christams 2004 to please everybody. :-wave Ray

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Guest

Hi JonP01,Thanks for your views - I have enjoyed this post as the concensus appears to be in favour of what I am doing and some even comment that I am legally correct - not that I would ever use this as an excuse to cross the developers and their incredable work.Anyway - I am currently in Newcastle NSW staying at a unit whilst working on a major contract - will be here at least until Xmas.You might have missed it in all of the long correspondence but I do not charge for one off individual requests for textures only for VA's.I do like to stay with the GMAX developed aircraft as I can do some reflective effects with them, The MS Sopwith is not GMAX but if you know of one then please advise. - but I have never done a sopwith camel repaint so it might be one to have a tinker with even non-reflective - send me the details of what you want.Garry J. Smith at http://www.gjsmith.comAircraft Texture Tinkererhttp://www.gjsmith.com/images/GJS-banner.gif

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Was that $15 AUS an hour or $15 USD an hour? If AUS, then piffle... that's only $1.98 USD. Big deal... :-lol

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Guest JonP01

Well that's only the second dig you've had at the Aussie dollar in eight months so I'll forgive you this second time around :-lol

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Only the second??? Wonders. :)I wished my memory was that good that I remembered the first. :-lol

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Guest

>Again thank for saying it so clearly - I also noticed that >you identified the reasoning for my hourly rate in lieu of >product cost. And I am impressed in you bringing some hint >of the realities of this issue. Hello, Gary...I'm amazed at some of the responses you've received thus far. Some seem to have difficulty with the concept of 'value added,' especially with regards to something as numinous and intangible as "artistic creativity."If a client wishes for you to create a custom logo for a VA, then what they are paying for is your artistic and creative talent and time, not for the specific product delivered.I am not a lawyer, so I cannot speak from that perspective, but as a moral theologian, I can unequivocally state that there is no moral or ethical problem with your tactics.However, unless a freeware author clearly states that a particular release "may not be repainted," logically one can conclude that they have full expectations that it will be repainted.

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