Compare the Dash8 panel with the ERJ145?

[Guest]

Andy,"rather poorly-drawn (IMO - I ain't no artist) bitmaps of Bill's panel." ???!!!Now that's a first. If you want "cartoon", the entire Flight Simulator program is a cartoon. Those photorealistic panels look kinda outta place in that environment. As far as your other commments on procedures that were left out and other items that make the ERJ panel "lite" and not operate in the "correct" manner as you perceive it, I've got a bucket full or real ERJ pilots who say otherwise. And as far as being "jocular" is concerned, I'm usually that most of the time. But sometimes my sense of humor leaves me.Expect more "cartoons" in the future. I doubt if you'll like those either.Bill

[Guest]

What a great topic. Comparing two of the most f*cking awesome freeware panels available. The ERJ Grabowski panel is hands down the most beautiful, most user fiendly panel. I certainly do not think that it is "cartoony", I rather that than photorealistic. The ERJ panel seems to be very close to the real thing, judging from my ERJ 145 systems book. Bill is still the king of doing it right the first time. The Dash panel. First of all the Dash 8 has been my favourite aircraft for over ten years, so you can say I'm more interested in this new panel. My first impression was it will be impossible to even start the plane much yet get any functionality out of it.I calmed down, read the manuals, and got it up and running. I thought what an accomplishment. I have been flying turboprops at a commuter airline for 3 years now. I know that if it were challenging for me, what about someone who does not even have a private license.I think the Dash panel has broken a new level in FS and is a great accomplishment in Fs history. Point being I love both panels, It is a terribly tough choice but I'll say the Dash wins here, for one, it's my dream to fly one. For two, It's incredibly real.cheers, panther

[barryward12345 0]

> I have been flying >turboprops at a commuter airline for 3 years now. I know >that if it were challenging for me, what about someone who >does not even have a private license. >I think the Dash panel has broken a new level in FS and is a >great accomplishment in Fs history. I agree -- I have slowly worked my way through this one - and I suddenly realised the other day how far I have come in my small 6 months of Simming. My biggest difficulty with this panel is that you can't save a situation. Right now , I am trying to figure out how the autopilot works -- basically by trial and error - so it would be great if it were possible to save a situation and continue working on it until I figure it out.Barry

[michal 44]

>Visual presentation: The ERJ is a bit too 'cartoony' for my >tastes, Funny, but it is exactly opposite with me. I find the Dash-8's panel a lot more cartoonish. BTW, 'cartoony' feel I often associate with panels that lack clarity and seemed to have been produced too "quickly". Dash=8's panel may be long on features but the graphics alone are in my opinion below average. I even suspect that some dials that should be round are not - look to me like someone decided to hand-draw them 5 minutes before release.Michael J.

[michal 44]

>The erj panel is much more easy from my exp . It does not >simulate the aircrafts systems near as well Hmmm... :-hmmmI do have a major problem with this statement. If Dash-8's systems are so well simulated then one would expect the AP-functionality to be flawless. Yet (I am still studying the panel so my observation is preliminary) the author states in his document about the Pitch and Roll Command Cue.

[Guest]

"Functionality: Bill's ERJ wins here. It's just a lot easier to get things done on his panel and it's an ergonomic delight."I tried to make my response to the original request for a comparison balanced. I note that you only responded to the comments that you perceived as negative. From that I deduce that you consider it OK for me to gush about something you like, but it's not OK to mention any misgivings that I may have.This is a forum and my opinions are just that - subjective. I stated that I love your panel - with certain exceptions which I also stated. I'm sorry that you believe that I have apparantly condemned the whole thing and that I do not appreciate your work. Far from it. But you're right, I probably won't like the _appearance_ of the MD-11 panel if you use the same style - but that's just me. It doesn't make me right and anyone else wrong. However, I don't use panels based solely on their appearance. I consider functionality to be far more important - hence my quoted comment above. I'd hope that the hobby has room for opinions that depart from the mundanity of "ooo look, it's wonderful".Eagerly awaiting the MD-11AndyEGTR

[Guest]

Andy,Constructive criticism is always welcomed if it improves the panel, but "rather poorly-drawn bitmaps" attacks the essence of what I consider the best part of my panels... the art. You definitely hit my hot button. I can see you expressing a preference for photorealistic panels, but I kinda like my art and think it's pretty good. We "artistes" get kinda surly when our art is criticized.Additionally, your description of the difficulties you've had with the autopilot and various configurations to the point where you won't use it online flies in the face of what I and others know that the panel can and will do successfully. I fly the ERJ panel online BECAUSE it's so easy and predictable to use. You experience suggests to me that you don't understand how to use the panel or you haven't got the upgrade, which I suspect you do have.Since you dislike the major portion of my panel's presentation, it's hard for me to understand why you would use it at all, or care about an MD-11. I do appreciate the positive comments, but you gutted the panel with your negative, implying that it looks bad and doesn't work well or reliably, or for that matter realistically.Bill

[Guest]

Hi Michael!The basic systems have to come first . Always. Before all the autoflight and EFIS toys are installedAs for the limitations of fs2002 - my autopilot is far from default and fs2002 just will not show FD bars in 50% cases. I"m thinking of fixing this in a Version 2.regardsOleksiy Frolov.

[Guest CharlesH]

Hi:I cannot do this, both panels are just great. I am not in the position to judge either panel. Its like the old debate, DF 737 vs PIC 767, Boeing vs Airbus. Apples and orange. Also it is personal preferences, what people like to fly. I just say that I do appreciate what those talented designers did and let their work speak for itself. You cannot compair these and its really unfair and I think its rude to do what you are doing. Lets end this debate and move on to flying. We all should be thankful that there are individuals out their that make these for us to enjoy. They have added so much realism into flying. Lets ups be grateful and leave it at that.Charles

[Guest BMarcoux]

Where can I find the ERJ Panel from Bill G. Also has anyone found a way in the dash 8 to have the auto pilot on and still be able to turn?? I've modified the cfg. files of my other a/c to get this to work but can't on the dash 8. Thanks

[KevinAu 441]

CharlesH is absolutely right. These sort of debates are absolutely stupid. What is better, an apple or an orange? Who is right the Republicans or the Democrats? Which is better, this turboprop or this jet? Completely different things. People who like to start these sort of threads, whether they realize it or not, are just trying to troll for a schoolyard fight. Because no matter which way it goes, as soon as the first reply comes in somebody somewhere is going to feel that their favorite toy has just been insulted. These kinds of threads need to be locked. Grow up people.

[Guest]

Charles,Well said.Bill

[michal 44]

Oleksiy,I understand your point of view. In real life if I were building an aircraft I would certainly put say pneumatics before EFIS "toys". But this is virtual world of flying and in this world, at least per my logic, the primary flight instruments come first. Whether FD is a primary instrument could be disputed but the fact remains it is a "toy" that professional pilots use a lot when they fly manually.It has the making of a great package. I also agree with others that more panel clarity (perhaps using more views to allow for larger instruments) would help enormously too. Because of FD issues and too-small gauges I had to put this aircraft in a hangar.Michael J.

[Guest]

Just one thing about the Dash 8 - on my system the throttles are almost unworkable. There is no sensitivity. Engines are either at 100% torque or 0% = no sensitvity for reducing thrust.

[KevinAu 441]

You need to have a throttle device in order to control the power on this bird. I do not, so unfortunately, I doubt I will be able to play with the dash 8 until I buy such a device.