Complaints about FS2002

[Guest]

I just finished reading the thread authored by Mask Carrot and since it is now locked; I am hoping to start my own. This complaint is a perfect example of why our community is losing (and will probably lose more} of our outstanding, devoted and dedicated freeware creators; from painters and designers to programmers. Look what has happened in the last 2 weeks from two of our best!! (also known as Anniette and Mike Stone) The complainers and the whiners are "driving these people crazy" with their "crying" in personal emails and bashing on public forums!! It's not worth it to these people to continue their contributions for this type of treatment.When I purchased FS 2002, I gave Microsoft LESS than I spend on ONE evening of dinner and a movie for my wife and me. In return I have spent hundreds of hours enjoying a hobby I have grown to love and accept new challenges every day of making it "more realistic" than the day before. These daily challenges should be the driving force, NOT OUR DESIRE TO BASH SOMEONE over OUR perception of what is acceptable.I have quietly watched the complainers daily on this forum, and I feel I am speaking for a HUGE majority when I say, "DID YOU EVER HEAR OF THE GOLDEN RULE??" ' IF YOU CAN'T SAY SOMETHING NICE, THEN DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL ' I want to close by giving my WARMEST THANKS to all (EVERYONE) of the freeware creators for your dedication and contributions for my enjoyment. THANK YOU.Vincent J. CarloVirginia, USA

[Guest firehawk44]

Well stated and totally agree...Jim

[FTD1949 0]

Could't agree more !! If you're not happy with the product then instead of complaining to the rest of your fellow simmers then quit using it and find something else.Ditto....thanks to all of the freeware designers...especially to to Peter Dowson for FSUIPC which makes a lot things work for us !!C Evans

[shermank 166]

As I signed on today and was scrolling down the opening AVSIM screen, I took a little time to read the names of all the contributors to this web site. I for one, want to publicly thank Tom and all of the contributors who make this the most interesting site on the entire flight sim segment of the Internet. The depth of expertise is truly astounding. People give so much so freely of their expertise, advice and designing talent. I might add, that it is unfortunate that a rivalry has blinded some simmers to one site over another (enough said about that.) My only complaint is that unlike flight sim magazines, I can't read avsim into the bathroom, and, please...no jokes about laptops...-00-Again, thanks to Tom and all the guys and gals who make avsim such a ball!!Sherman KaplanHighland Park IL

[Guest gasebah]

Here we go again. There seem to be only two kinds of people. Those who think everything is rubbish and cannot be used by someone with their intelligence and knowledge. And those who would not like to see any critizism at all. I agree with you 100% when it comes to freeware. I was absolutely shocked when I heard what is happening with them. But I cannot understand what is wrong about complaining about payware that is not up to standard. When I pay money for something I would like it to work. And if I am about to buy something I go here and seek advice and god forbid that I will only meet people here that either cheer or remain quiet.BTW, I think FS2002 is a great program the way it is. To get rid of the little bugs and inconsistencies would have probably taken longer than the develpoment of the whole program. So I can absolutely understand that it has been released the way it is.Having said that also in the future I will state my opinion on the stuff I pay money for. If it is great I will state that IMO it is great, if I feel it is rubbish I will state that IMO it is rubbish.If I feel that the support of LAGO is great I will say so, and if have made a bad experience with someone else I will let you know. I have not the slightest idea what could be wrong with that. And I expect anyone else to do so as I care for their opinions.Alex

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Well said Alex....Sometimes I often see the issues regarding freeware bashing mixed in with product critiques in general, to make it seem like someone seeking improvement in any product is of the same league as a freeware basher. There is also another issue--that of someone's seeking improvement in payware being put in the same league as a whiner. It's assumed we want improvement, therefore we don't like FS, and thus we shouldn't say anything at all.I too feel FS and my FS payware add-on investments are bargains compared to shelling out $70 to see the Stones in concert. "Satisfaction" is long lasting with FS and payware products like Dreamfleet's and Flight1's--for me it never ends. In a Stones concert, it's a five minute song. But why do people think that I don't like something, because I want to improve it? The other day, I posted a thought on adding more dihedral and shortening the tail on Dreamfleet's Cardinal. Immediately I was branded as disgruntled, despite several posts here at Avsim and Flightsim applauding Dreamfleet's overall effort.This debate will go on forever, but IMHO, it is a poor indicator of the mindset of some people that everything needs to be "happy happy joy joy." I love FS and the payware products I have, and I love the availability of a gracious host like Tom, who allows us to come in here and post thoughts for improving the product. As for freeware, I have no qualms about saying to an author--can you add a wing view? But a public forum is not the place to start picking apart freeware.. -John

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

No jokes about laptops... I promise... But I do have this PDA that I am trying to figure out how to put to use in connecting with AVSIM.Thanks for the kudos Sherm. We do appreciate them. We have some 40 or so people that contribute to this effort, and it is good for all to get an occasional compliment, rather than the brickbats that we have become so used to. :)

[Guest BMarcoux]

70.00 for the Stones!!!!!! I paid 600.00 for 2 tickets for the upcoming November concert in San Diego the first week they went on sale.:((((( I don't think I have that much invested in ALL my MSFS addons, so yes it is a great deal for the investment when you look at how many hours of fun you have.

[Guest]

Just a quick note, John.I was the first respondent to your reply regarding the visual model at the DF forum. I saw your post as intelligent and collaborative, not critical. And to be quite honest, since I noticed the same things, I thought it was an issue that many would have and required a thought out answer. You did no wrong in that post!I am not an Avsim Forum regular. I usually only show up here looking for information. (And I usually find it!) Although I try to contribute to Flightsim.com on occasion with small articles I do not frequent there forums, either. The phenomenon that keeps me out of forums is the one which leads this thread and which you have expanded upon; the near impossibility of sustaining a constructive conversation regarding any topic.But, it is precisely those who make an effort at "sustained constructive" dialogue that keep me coming back. I am not a pilot and so I got quite bored with FS98 after I learned how to get up and down in a plane. Avsim and Flightsim were the two sites that redeemed my flightsim experience and exposed me to enough pilot intelligence to keep at it. These two sites cultivated my interest in flightsimming until it became a genuine interest in aviation. (Hence my complete lack of understanding of "competition" between sites. But I don't know the history so I will stay out of that one from now on.)John, yours was such a post. The truth is we cannot legislate forum demeanor beyond a padlock here or there. But there are those of us who have benefited from good insight and can ignore the rest. Keep posting.OK, so it wasn't just a quick note, after all.Derrick

[Guest]

To; Alex and John...I completely agree with one's right to critique a product after compensation. I apologize if it sounded as if no one should complain. The thread I was referring to (Bugs in FS2002) was the catalyst for my soapbox stance against any whiners of freeware products. I agree with Alex and any other's right to make a suggestion or minor alteration to the creator. However, IMHO, either praise and thank the contributor or quietly decline its inclusion into your personal files. I'm sure we have all downloaded aircraft, panels, scenery, gauges, etc etc. that did not suit our needs or we simply did not like its looks. My goal of this thread is to make the person think about his/her actions before replying to the creator or perhaps.... just quietly hitting the "delete" button.Vincent CarloVirginia, USA

[Guest]

I agree with you, Vincent. I do not see any reason a person cannot accomplish what John and Alex desire and the decorum you set forth. It's a both/and proposition.Derrick

[Guest]

Thank you very much Vincent for your comment ,it is for people like you we continue :)But your post made me think after reading some replys that It must be WORSE for people who Make there Job Designing for flight simulator than for people like me who only do it as a past time.THey Must put SO much of there Hard work all day every day to do there best and work long hours and then when they read what people say about there work It must really be hurtfull as it is for any person.So I think there is very Little good to be had from critiques other than to make people feel bad,with children we do not say your work is rubbish we incourage them and next time it gets better So why do we tell adults there days work is rubbish if it is not to simply make them feel bad ?I know there will be many "hard earned dollars"statment but if I go see Star Wars 1 and it is no good I do not complain I just do not see Star wars two :) I know what I mean to say but it is not easy ,Let us just not be so critical all the time and be nice to each other and if we do not like something find Something good to say and then offer sugestions in a Kind way may be nicer?Anniette xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Guest]

I'm past complaining. Using myt Ti4600 has given the best possible grahics for Fs2002 over a lot o people so I'm grateful. Tweaking stinks.This is how I use FS2002:1. Startup Ultimate Airlines2. Choose my flight and save it.3. Open up FS2002 and import my Ultimate Airlines (patch) flight.4. Open up Dave March FDC-connect5. Real Weather6. Whalla!If I use my Dreamfleet 2000 737's than I really have some "extra" things to do!Tim

[Guest gasebah]

Dear Anniette,first of all I want to have this understood in the right way. The freeware authors owe nothing to the community. The community owes everything to the freeware authors. Even the most minor contribution should be welcome, and IMHO cannot be a target for critizism at all.If you do something commercially however you have to stand that critizism and it is part of the professionalism to learn from it, and deal with it and part the important critizism from the nagging.In my real life I am a product manager. I put my best effort in any product we release. I am working many hours to get it right, and still there are products that for a huge variety of reasons are not accepted well in the market. It is part of the professionalism to not let that get to you and to embrace constructive critizism from customers to improve. If a customer is unsatisfied with the product I will always do my best to help him. I would never give him the feeling e.g. that he is too dumb to use this product (even if this might be the case not rarely) like it happens on some of the so called support forums. If a customer makes mistakes in using the product most of the time this actually is a problem with the product as it is not explained well enough in the instructions, it is not failsafe...or..or.. These people earn their living with their products.If you buy a VCR and it will only playback you would never accept this as a minor bug and just buy another one from a different manufacturer, would you? I have no idea why so many people feel this way about software and even computer hardware.Like always when I start elaborating over this topic if gotten way off topic and this post is way too long already, so I better stop :-).Alex