whats wrong with FS2002 **F** GS Capture?

[Guest]

this is driving me insane, the GS doesnt bring the plane down properly i land far short on the runway sometimes in the sea, also sometimes the GS needle doesnt come down with the AC whats wrong with it?it was perfect in FS2000ive tried everything having a dirty config before GS Capture and also dropping the gear just prior to GS intercept, i have close to empty tanks on board and i have tried the default 737 and some third party ac A330 737'shelp:-mad

[Guest]

I think we need more information.How is your NAV setup?Are you below GS when you start to intercept it?Perhaps you could fly a specific ILS at a certain RWY and airport, and tell exactly what you are doing, from say 40 nm out.Best regards S.Jensen

[Guest]

Let me be brief about this.Try intercepting the localiser 12nm out (we're testing it out) at 3000 feet, 200 knots. Once established on localiser, slow to about 170, (depending on your weight) and extend flaps on schedule. When glideslope comes alive, select gear down and slow a little more. When establishing on glideslope, extend landing flaps and select landing speed. That should be well off. Make sure you try this on a airport not like JNB which is 5000 feet above sea level. Try EGLL, WSSS, etc.

[rcbarend 37]

" it was perfect in FS2000 "No, it wasn't.Considering the autopilot, FS2K2 is much more realistic than FS2000.And therefore less a 'game' and more a 'simulator'.If you follow Jubelee's advice, you'll probably succeed. Just practice .. and practice .....Remember: always fly "into the glideslope" at level flight (or at least a decent rate less than the glideslope), and make sure you have the correct speed (well below 200 Knots IAS at that point) and flap settings.Rob

[Guest]

By the way, if you are intercepting the localiser at a sharper angle say about 50 degrees be sure to slow down, 200 would be too fast.

[Geofa 108]

Also-make sure you are using the published plate/procedure for the approach. Fs2000 had a "game" like approach that steered you to any runway-fs2002 actually follows the plates. There are a few bugs here and there but for the most part it is very realistic-much more so than in fs2000.From this site:http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/ILS.htm"This glide slope signal may be adjusted between 2

[Guest Ron Freimuth]

>this is driving me insane, the GS doesnt bring the plane >down properly i land far short on the runway sometimes in >the sea, also sometimes the GS needle doesnt come down with >the AC whats wrong with it? >>it was perfect in FS2000 ...>:-mad Simple: MS screwed up the autopilot in FS2K2. And, took out REC 1199 in the AIR file, which allowed us to adjust the FS2K2 autopilot to be even better. The poor GS capture isn't the only problem with the autopilot. MS also damaged the already poor 'Yaw Damper' by making it no longer adjustable in the AIR file. Further, MS stated it won't bother to fix any of the numberous issues with FS2K2. Richard Probst had to program his own GS capure for his new 737 panel. Ron

[michal 44]

The GS capture in FS2002 is slightly flawed but not to the extent you describe. If you have such severe problems then you are also probably not helping the situation by flying aircraft rather poorly. The GS capture is very 'anemic' and often leads to falling a notch below the optimum but it can still lead you to the runway, or at least to 200 ft RA. I have flown ILS with Grabowski's ERJ-145 which uses standard FS2002's AP and had not had major problems during countless approaches.Michael J.

[Guest Muppet22]

I don't agree with that - if the 2k2 GS was realistic then you could try a 90 degree intercept at 220kts and see it work no problem at all.With 2k2 you have to give it 20 degrees at 180kts or less to have any chance.How do I solve the problem? Fly planes with non-MS AP's namely PIC

[John_Cillis 2,406]

It's funny....This has been discussed a lot, and many have hopped on Microsoft's bandwagon saying how unrealistic FS2000's APR mode was. Those same voices were silent during FS2000's two year reign--I don't recall any complaints about FS2000's APR mode.As Ron points out, Microsoft simply dropped support of a section in the .air file--probably to save cpu cycles as part of a general refinement process.But a good landing is still possible (on a good ILS) with the APR mode, but you have to approach it from the pilot's perspective. Do you think an A320 pilot could hop into a 737 cockpit, having never seen it, and do everything right to land w/approach mode on the first try? I doubt it.... Some learning would be needed... You have to "learn" what works for your aircraft, and commit it to memory or at least enter it into the A/C notes. I wouldn't have released Autoland 2002 had I no faith in FS2002's APR mode. Also, a tweak or two of the aircraft.cfg may be needed to help. The APR mode uses elevator trim to keep on the G/S. If the sensitivity is too low, it won't be able to compensate and the aircraft will lose the G/S. You may have to increase elevator_trim_sensitivity in the aircraft.cfg to help.Also, you don't want to intercept the G/S in what I call a "losing situation". Sometimes your speed is too high or too low in relation to your flaps/gear settings for the a/p to keep on the G/S. I intercept the G/S from level flight, going slightly slower than my planned descent speed. When the A/P intercepts the G/S, the aircraft will pitch down and the speed will increase... By coming in slightly slower, I can compensate for the aircraft speeding up a bit too much. If I am not completely "dirty", I wait until the A/P is tracking the G/S (you can usually see the trim indicator moving) before I lower flaps, reduce thrust, etc.... I then wait again for the next round of adjustments..Don't expect the same numbers to work on all aircraft. But once you know what the numbers are, you should be able to land virtually hands-off. And a very important thought--if you aren't lined up with the ILS, the G/S most likely won't be captured. You must be lined up first (as someone else noted, try to do it about 12 miles out)....-John

[Guest nitram]

Are you switching from 'GPS' to 'Nav' on approaches? (just that the obvious has n't been mentioned)Regards Nitram UK

[michal 44]

Not sure what you disagree with. I never said that FS2002's AP is perfect (and certainly not its GS which is off) and never said it is even close to say Boeing's autopilots but at the same time when flown "properly" it does reasonably good job of bringing you to the runway (and not to water). Yes, PIC's AP is tne best but even this one is not perfect - it can't capture GS from above which true 767's AP certainly can.Michael J.

[Geofa 108]

One thing I don't understand is what is meant when one speaks of Fs's autopilot. There are many brands, and types of autopilots in the real world and their capabilites vary quite a bit. The one in my aircraft has appr mode-but you have to be established within 10 degrees of the final approach course before engaging it or it will not work-period. Obviously a 90 degree or 50 degree intercept would be out of the question (as it is with atc anyway). A later make and model of my autopilot allows up to 30 degrees and my own manufacturer makes about 5 types that all work in different manners-hence why there is about a 100 page manual for each of them.I personally feel the problem here is not if the autopilot is broken-but which and what autopilot is possibly being simulated, and what features. If a heavy iron driver used my Ga aircraft's autopilot (which is a very good one by the way) and applied the rules of a typical 737's autopilot to it they would surely also be dissapointed-it also is not designed to be used in a jet aircraft. Is it reasonable for FS to have one autopilot that works equally well for Ga aircraft and big jets? That's what they did in the last version, but it isn't very realistic.The gps that is included with fs is generic gobbly gook-it does a little of everything, but nothing realistically. In the past the fs autopilot struck me exactly the same way-a generic and unrealistic gobbly gook that worked reasonably well without reading a manual. In this version the autopliot appears to resembles a higher end GA autopilot. Since the cover of it is a king does it not make sense that perhaps this is the case-and that this autopilot is not really designed to use in the bigger jet aircraft (I posted the link for the 100 page manual for the king many moons ago-never heard back from anyone)? Perhaps that might be more the problem. It seems that when the jet drivers apply similar rules of getting the proper airspeed and being established first (which is how my ga autopilot works) that the fs autopilot does the job-although perhaps not able to handle the increased airspeed of the jet well.When I fly the fs autopilot the same way I fly my real one it works very much the same and works quite well-but then I only fly Ga aircraft on FS. Now the autopilot in fs2000 was generic-it was perfect and got you down no matter if you read a manual or not-and it didn't matter what aircraft you flew. It appears to me that in this version many variables were improved-such as instead of a blanket approach for every runway that takes you generically in for a perfect approach every time that real approach data with offsets, alignments etc. were followed. Likewise it appears to me that fs modelled a higher end GA autopilot with its quirks-what I would consider and improvement but others might consider a deprovement. Perhaps the question is-what if any brand, make of autopilot is modelled in fs2002. After all-is it reasonable that one single type of autopilot would do a good job on both a GA aircraft and jet aircraft? It doesn't work that way in the real world.http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/Geofdog2.gif

[Guest]

hi guysthanks for all your responseswell first off all no i have got the switch to NAV not GPSsecondly i am pretty light on the approach, like about 25% fuel on board, i maintain a landing speed of around 140 kts as soon as the GS needle comes down 1 dot away from the centre i put gear down, around this time i am doing approx 160 ias, then as the gear is coming down i reduce speed on the AP to 140, the engines slowly start reving lower, however by the time the GS reaches middle and the AP ALT light goes off my engines start revving upthen when the ALT light goes off, the plane takes a abrupt descent and then from then on it the plane just keeps going down and down and the GS needle keeps going up and up, i am pretty much full flap before GS is there any resources out on the web which tells you hot to execute a good ILS landing with GS,ILS allignment is not my problem the GS is ...regards

[Guest]

These were done by Peter for 2k, but I have found if you follow them they work in 2k2 just as well. About 20 minutes a loop. Do 10 of them and you will not have any more problems.Article is available here now, but pictures and other links stillbroken...http://www.simflight.com/news5/modules.php...article&sid=428 Might want to read that one too:http://www.simflight.com/news5/modules.php...article&sid=429Bob