What about a localised flight simulator from MS?

[Guest]

I'd be interested to know how much demand there would be for a version of MSFS which only covers the area in which you regularly fly. I rarely stray outside the confines of the UK, so the fact that you can fly to and from airstrips all over the globe is wasted on me. I have neither the time nor inclination to make transatlantic voyages on autopilot, but I do very much enjoy VFR short hops around my own country.I've often wished for a simulator which recreated the UK in fine detail, and left the rest of the world out. The advent of fantastic new GA addons makes me want it even more. FU3 did a great job of simulating geographical areas which were relatively small, but which were far superior to MS in terms of detail. Have a look at the level of detail in the upcoming combat sim, LO:MAC.... again, a small piece of real estate, but done brilliantly.I appreciate that there are all kinds of simmers, and there'll be plenty (a majority, I imagine) who would prefer to see FS stay the way it is.But I believe there would be a strong market for a flight sim which was broken down into geographical parts. Think about it; a sim which recreates your preferred neck of the woods in photorealistic detail, where you can fly over your own street and spot your own house. Maybe you could even buy different editions, and add them to your world as and when you require. Looking Glass did it with FU2/3.In an ideal world, we could buy a sim which offers the sort of detail I'm talking about, but across the whole world. I think that's some way off, but in the meantime I'd be happy to pay good money to sacrifice a world of generic sameness for a small plot of detailed actuality.What do you think?

[Geofa 108]

Isn't that kind of what we have?-a generic well rendered world on which anyone can take it upon themselves to add a highly detailed area?If I recall there is high detailed mesh of the UK-and a company is coming out soon with all the UK airports in amazing detail. Although I was very impressed with both, I won't be ordering them as I never fly in that part of the world.I don't disagree with what you say-the problem is we are all from different parts of the world. For me-it would be the entire state of Michigan-but better yet the entire US. For another it might be Germany, or China or......It seems to me MS has left the option there for anyone to do it 3rd party-now. I don't really see how that can be improved at this point, other than perhaps a "terrascene" like device for MS-although that would cover only the geopgraphy/road part of the equation.http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/Geofdog2.gif

[Guest cornclose]

I, like you, only fly UK hops, regional at best.VFR Scenery, famed for their FS98 ENgland & Wales, are concentrating all thier efforts now into FS2002 UK scenery.See http://www.vfrscenery.com/ and look under the 'News' section.I have the FS98 versions, and it is simply stunning in FS98 (far beyond what was ever expected of FS98).Chris Ehttp://website.lineone.net/~flightsimukAvoid AGP texturing = Better Performance ;)

[Guest Paul_W]

>I'd be interested to know how much demand there would be for >a version of MSFS which only covers the area in which you >regularly fly. >>I rarely stray outside the confines of the UK, so the fact >that you can fly to and from airstrips all over the globe is >wasted on me.I've thought for a long time that this would be the best strategy for an MS competitor to use. Of course in combat flight sims the restricted geographic area is the default approach, and IL-2 has provided significant competition for CFS, and LOMAC will surely be better yet.Personally I don't see MS changing it's whole-world approach, but I'd definitely be interested in a highly detailed local or regional approach to flight simulation. In fact I think it's probably "the answer" to greatly increased realism in the near term. Who knows, perhaps a British company will come up with a UK-only simulator. I'd love that.

[Guest]

I have to say I like the fact that the whole world is included, personally I would rather Europe was in higher detail - rather than just the UK.Then again I can always choose to purchase "payware" product to enhance the terrain or airports etc etc at the moment I have the FSGenesis "base" for the US & Alaska and just this minute downloading all of the LAGO Alpine meshes.I remember back with FS95 that it was quite limiting if you were not in certain area's of the states - now with the detail that is in it I find FS2002 has a much longer life !!

[Guest]

It wouldn't be feasible, profitable or cost effective. What you propose is analagous to producing a shoe only for people with size 10 feet, only in blue, who walk no more than 1/2 mile, and will never walk in the rain. Who would buy it except for the people who fit that profile?Since the flight simulation community is so small in relation to other gaming markets, your idea would segment the community even futher in terms of those who would purchase it.You would sell a few copies in the UK, a few in the US and so on, but then what about the simmers who ENJOY flying internationally or just want to fly in and around other areas? Also, what WOULD you do if one crazy morning you woke up and decided you wanted to fly to another country or just see what it's like? You have effectively missed a majority part of the market who wouldn't even consider purchasing the sim at all. Furthermore, those who like to fly heavies would be left with no where to fly, because it would be very silly to pilot a B747-400 or 777-200 from London to Glasgow and back again, so then you would have to limit the aircraft you include which would then cause even more people to not buy it. At the end of the day you would be left with a handful of customers, who like to fly short to medium range aircraft, in a single country all the time. I would estimate your market segment at around 10 people :-lolThe niche market for such a product would be so miniscule that you wouldn't get a publisher and the return on investment wouldn't be worth the effort even if you funded it yourself. FS2002 is available so that you can stay in your own country if you wish, provides the tools for you to import photorealistic scenery to your hearts content for the highest level of realism in your preferred local area and provides anywhere on the planet for you to fly (whether you stay local or not).The approach you propose has already been tried with the FU series and didn't interest the vast majority of simmers who DON'T live in California or Washington State. Sure it made a few thousand simmers quite content to have their home in great detail, but those few simmers couldn't support the product enough financially and that is why there is no FU series anymore.Likewise with FLY!, the wonder of flying around your own miniscule photorealistic personal Garden of Eden rendered so that you could see your own home wore of very quickly and it became imperative for TRI to get much more scenery out there. After all, how many times can you circle over your home before the novely wears off?Just my opinion, but I could be wrong! - Dennis Miller.Mike T.

[Guest]

MikeI think you're a bit wide of the mark. 10 people? I would put it at 12 minimum.Seriously though, I think it's wrong to claim the flight sim community is so small compared to other gaming genres; FS has sold more copies than you can shake a stick at.Cheers

[ErnieAlston 33]

You're probably right in the only way your going to get that outstandling local detail is for the sim to focus on that local area(ie like FUIII).Relying on 3rd party developers hasn't really worked. 3rd party scenery is too difficult to develop now, only the very popular areas are given more detail as the potential sales makes them worth them.3rd party scsnery development of smaller airports and towns has pretty much died out.The only way I'd see what you suggest as feasable to to charge an extra price for the more detailed areas. MS used to do that, but got out of the add-on scenery business. I guess it wasn't that successfull financially.Ernie.

[JimmiG 244]

I still very much enjoy FU3 because of the high detail compared to FS2002. However, FU3 didn't sell very well, in part due to the insane system requirements at the time, but also because it was a GA simulator and didn't come with a 747 etc. Kind of pointless to pilot around a 747 in a 100x100 miles cube...I would personally want MS to remove Asia, South America and Africa alltogether from the sim, and make Europe and the US more detailed. But I'm sure there are those who would disagree.BTW, there's a photoreal UK region scenery for FU3 in progress. It currently covers some of southern england but they are constantly working on it.

[Wolfko 0]

Damian,That's exactly how it was with the first versions of FS. My first version was FS2 and it only covered 5 US areas (Chicago, New York, Boston, Los Angeles, Seattle) not more.Then after a while, what a sensation, add on sceneries came out, for Europe and other US-cities. There was a big hipe in the FS-community about this, evrybody found it great.Soon the whole world was covered and - we were excited!!!What you whish is clearly one step, no, 10 steps, back! What should be the benefit of your suggestion? Although you disagree, it is, as sombody stated, like producing a type of shoes only in one size.One of the big advantages of MSFS is its open system. There is anything for everybody. There are GA aircraft and Heavy metal, even seaplanes, there are pistons, torboprops and jets, there are single and multi engine aircraft. There are international airports, grass strips and ports for seaplanes.Its on purpose that MS designs it this way. So it appeals as many people as possible. Nobody is forced to use all the features, to use all the planes, to fly in all of the supplied scenery areas, to use all the offered waether options. You can customize your sim (allready at installation).This MS concept is also obvious in in the options/settings/display menue. There you can customize your sim. Some people do not like mipmapping, others do not use antialiazing, the resolution settings vary, some set autogen to 100 others do not like it at all, and, and, and.This open system also leaves the most possible space for talented designers of add ons, freeware, shareware and payware.If your suggested way is followed consequently to the end, then we will end up with - a "Cessna 172 simulator for VFR pilots, flying mainly in the London Eastend area, using 1024 x 768 resolution"- a "Baron 58 simulator for IFR pilots, flying only in bad weather from New york to Philadelphia on sundays only, no mipmapping possible"- a "DC9 sim for people flying in southern Japan onlyo to use with 800 x 600 resolutiion"etc., etc.If you do not use all the features MSFS offers, at least it is good that you had the possibilty to use them.Believe somebody, who allready flew in the limited wold of FS2! I do not want it back! Regards, Wolfgang

[Guest]

i got the co ordinates of where i live lat / lon, (i live 18km south of Brisbane - Australia)started up Flight Simulator, entered in the coordinates and landed in swamping land with trees all around,i would prefer if M$ came out with detailed areas where people fly, yes trying to get the complete world for market domination is just a waste if u only fly 1% in the sim

[Guest]

cornclose said: I, like you, only fly UK hops, regional at best.VFR Scenery, famed for their FS98 ENgland & Wales, are concentrating all thier efforts now into FS2002 UK scenery.See http://www.vfrscenery.com/ and look under the 'News' section.I have the FS98 versions, and it is simply stunning in FS98 (far beyond what was ever expected of FS98).Chris Ehttp://website.lineone.net/~flightsimukAvoid AGP texturing = Better Performance Wasn't that something! they have a year left b4 FS2004 comes upon us.I wonder if they're using gMAx?

[Guest]

There are many reasons.Complete secrecy by Microsoft for the better part of a year as to how to make scenery, leaving developers guessing.

[Chris Willis 8]

Hi, I will stay like it's now simply because, if you want to fly in a some place, flight planning, atc etc, you will not be capable and restricted to fly in this area for 2 years. exemple, NO more Las Vegas, No more meigs, No more New Yorks etc...Ms updating each release, photo sat, detailed scenery, airports, Also I think they will loses sales if they do this way.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFshttp://fsw.simflight.com/fsw.jpg

[michal 44]

I am not sure how different is this idea from having just a very good detailed scenery of say UK. So why would you have to leave the other part of this world out, we can simply have present generic scenery for everywhere outside of the 'special' scenery.But my main problem is performance. Even using the Landclass scenery I see considerable hit in loading time and more stutter later. I can only imagine what would happen with high-res detailed scenery rich in textures.Michael J.