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ejoiner

To all of Anniette's critics...................

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Jeff,Your posts on this issue continue to be completely hypocritical. On the basis of common sense and for one specific reason:Anyone with a copyright has the right to enforce that copyright. You seem to see that point clearly -What you wholly and completely (and intentionally?) miss is: anyone with a copyright or trademark has a right to NOT ENFORCE that copyright or trademark as they see fit.The airlines, without your help or advice, have chosen to ignore use of their copyrights in a manner that dramatically advertises their brand. *For Free*. Get it? Free advertising? I have absolutely no doubt they LOVE to see the cry and demand for one of their branded repaints when a new freeware aircraft is released. The proof is in their inaction on enforcing their copyrights (as a whole) over the years in this hobby: for freeware developers.You have stuck to your highly questionable argument over, and over, and over, and over: that respect for Corporate Airline copyrights should be stringently enforced (by you - not the airline) regardless of those Corporations own policies and in the direct face of their practices for many, many years. A policy that greatly benefits those corporations when it comes to brand recognition and customer loyalty.And yet you equate that to be exactly equal to a thief stealing a freeware developers work - adding extremely minimal changes - then releasing it as their own. With the result that the freeware developer makes a public issue of it. Unbelievable.So please, give us a break. The vast majority saw through that silly argument of yours when it was first made. Your unending attack on Anniette over the issue has rightly earned you the derision of many here - in my opinion. The two issues you continue to argue as the same are clearly and wholly unrelated: to your obstinate ignorance it seems. Its not like you made your shaky point once and left it alone Jeff. You have pounded it into the ground repeatedly... To the detriment of our hobby.Take care,Elrondhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/Boycott-RIAA.gif]"A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle."[/font://http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/B...cle."[/b][/font

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it's a game guys. Really. What happened to the fun?further, I just tracked down what Jeff's original post was.>I don't condone the example you showed but there is a double >standard in this hobby. Then you have the so called copyright >police in our hobby that don't seem to realise that every airline >logo on the planet is copyrighted including the livery. It's ok for >them to copy the designers work of the livery but it isn't ok for >somebody to copy theirs.gee, I cannot believe this comment has escalated into this. I don't see any bashing here, just a simple statement that if you leave personal feelings out, is true. he does say he doesn't condone the example.

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Why is this still popping up anyhow. I wish you all would quit trying to stir this thing up again :-rollAVSIM could you please close copyright threads from now on. They seem to cause nothing but trouble. What is a shame is most of you don't realise is that I am not against you. I love how everybody has labeled me a troublemaker when AGAIN all I want to see is ALL peoples work respected. Think what You wish.

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Mike,I wasn't saying that you shouldn't do it. I never did. I was just saying that we seem to copy ones work when we repaint a real airline livery. How many have asked for permission? How many put in the readme thanking the original author? We expect the same from others who copy our work right?Thats all now I'm the OSAMA of FS world :-rollI don't know how many times I must apologize. Jeff

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"can't we just all get along"Rodney King copyright 19 somthinGuys and Gals Anniette please just move on. I haven't bashed anybody here. This is just a game and alot of you including myself are letting this get way to serious. Again for those of you the feel offended it isn't my intention. Just respect ALL peoples work thats all.

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Now look at this texture.(see attachment below) This is cut and pasted from Posky_C17bdyl1This wasn't painted by POSKY it was just one of their aircraft repainted. It is a UPS C-17 available heere at AVsim. Now go to this file here http://www.airliners.net/open.file/199733/L/The UPS logo was cut cleaned up and pasted into this. We can't even post airliner.net pictures here because of copyrights but we are allowed to take someones picture which you can see is copyrighted in the link and cut and paste it into a file that is available here. 2413 people here downloaded this. Bearracing even reviewed it. There is no mention of Airliners.net in the readme. There is no mention of Mike Bates in the readme. Is this copyright infringment or not. Please clear this up because I have seen so many opinions of copyright infringment and he stole this that I don't know who is right anymore.Look here though for Airliners.net version of copyright http://www.airliners.net/usephotos/Please let me know if this is ok to do or not. I'll be glad to show more examples and some will hate me even more.

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Guest Edam

Sheesh! You just don't get it, do you? In two previous posts you stated:"Why is this still popping up anyhow. I wish you all would quit trying to stir this thing up again.""Guys and Gals Anniette please just move on."Then you continue to harp upon it as above, with examples even. Have you not "heard" what *anyone* has said here?And then you wonder why? You are hopeless.

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Let me ask this once without trying to inflame the group...doesanybody here know of ANYBODY who EVER has been sued by anybody because of copyright infringement of 3rd party textures in a sim? I seriously doubt any private individual has ever done more than get ######, have his feelings hurt and talk about it. In the real world, Im not sure anybody ever gets sued, so is it really worth having this discussion without a corp lawyer on retainer? Only reason I say this is that (mebbe) another thought process might be better for those who are content originators. I humbly offer how I think about this subject with my own work. I dont have the money or the interest to sue anybody over a hobby, so I guess I've settled into the following thought process considering the Internet as a distribution venue.I've done several hundred skins in my time for several simulations, including skins than have wound up in boxed product. Many of these are at my site www.aluminumcloud.com. I routinely give permission to modify those skins to people who ask. However, I've not run across anybody who just completely ripped me off. If I had, (and mebbe its happened and I just am too dumb to know.) yeah, I'd probably get mad, but to be honest, I do this stuff for my own enjoyment and those of you who are are my online friends. I know who you are. I belong to an online community here at Avsim as well as a few others. I know who I respect. Your comments mean a lot to me. Those who I dont know,I look forward to knowing later. Those who steal from me...F*&K them.However, I do this as freeware. Freeware means its FREE to ME. You guys get it as exhaust of my personal creative process. I tend to deal with this whole subject as respect for the fact that my enjoyment of others work is again exhaust of their own pleasure. When I create content...the only one I care about pleasing is ME so long as its free. If I were to charge, then I would have a customer base to consider and then...its a different story. Paying customers have the right to complain and comment on their satisfaction.Just my own personal opinion.Eric


rexesssig.jpg AND ftx_supporter_avsim.jpg

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Hi Mike,this issue is more or less a no-brainer for any lawyer. I just hope you didn't have to pay for the advice. Imagine the absurdity of the situation - after giving up considerable amounts of your spare time to design products that bring lots of enjoyment to a great many people, you're forced to pay money to defend the work you've done for free...Cheers,Gosta.

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You're the one who starts them Jeff. And now that they're turning against you you want them killed?Consistency Jeff, consistency...

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